i honor this committee when barney frank puts together a task force. it is the brains of this country. i thank you for that. thank you. [applause] >> i realize it is important for us to have a product that can be defended against people who are going to extort does. we are not talking about undercutting troops or backing away from the fight against terrorism. we are talking about a hard looks about our security needs. i'm grateful for these people who have come together. i am going to now call on the executive director of the national security network. she will begin a presentation and introduce her colleagues. >> i am actually laura peterson. we are a natiooal non-partisan watchdog of based here in washington, d.c. i would like to thank congressman frank for convening this event. i like to thank you all for coming here today. even though our four of the speaking here, there are many people involved.. the all contributed in measurable amounts of their time and expertise to do if they would all stand and identify themselves. [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >

you have to ask barney frank of the democrats.e can blame a lot of things on bush, but this with gse's is not one of them. he was calling for that a number of yeers ago. it is not like members of congress did not see this coming. fannie and freddie were in trouble long ago. the too big to fail contracts when it comes out of a push for reform for those two entities -- it does come from these. you have something government sponsored, agreed to buy mortgages from banks and package -pthem and resell them as mortgage-backed securities. it had a lot to do with the housing collapse. host: something likely in the bill as talked about in "the washington post" today, described as a derivatives spinoff plan, gaining support. banks would be forced to spin off their derivatives. the plan seems to be gaining it is championed by centerized.- blanche lincoln. it had been opposed by the administration. some lawmakers in both parties, multiple banking regulators and wall street, but appears to be gaining support. your reaction? guest: derivatives s

barney frank, ron paul, have been been the task force. this is just over one hour.i just over one hour. >> it is easier to find ways to cut the defense department then to find this room. i as in the wrongart of the building. it took me awhile to give up. this is it imptant meeting. going to be giving out, i do notftenreach from a text but iyesterday's new york times, there's an article about the warn afghanistan and i came across this. officials regard support and afghanisas especially important at a time when man european countries, including britain and germany, are committed to sharp cuts in defense spending as part of eir drive to reduce huge government deficit in fact, two sundays ago, the times haan article about the european ability to sustain a much higher lever -- level of expenditures for wt many consider quality of life for their own citizenand it mentioned they were able to do this becse they are sheltered by nato and the american nuclear umbrella. i am a gat supporter of president obama but he makes a serious error when he exams military spending from a

barney frank and the other guys would be prosecuted criminally for what they have done. [unintelligible] we need to keep this from happening again. guest: the problem in this bill is when you look at all of the money -- regarding the $300 billion as far as bailout -- look at all of the money that has been spent by congress in the bailout or whatever you want to call them. they will pale in comparison the amount of money the taxpayers will be on the hook for regarding fannie mae and freddie mac. it looks around $400 billion over the next 10 years. to go much higher than that. the problem with the bill we are doing is trying to reform them and fix is. we had a vote on this last week dealing with trying to start the process say $30 billion. the democrats voted no and the republicans voted yes. we have to do something to rein it in. the democrats are not touching this issue. host: independent line, virginia. caller: this is my first time calling the show. when the corporate bailouts were given out a year ago or so, they gave all of the banks their money. they continue to giv

other than the chairman barney frank, there was no work on >> that is correct. the bill the conference committee is working on now is what the senate center with several changes, 300 pages, that were added after the senate passed the legislation. it is very much a product of the senateeanddwill be sent over to the house. the house will be trying to flex its power and sea changes in the nnxt month. >> do either of you see that there will be many surprises or republican victories coming out of this conference committee? something they can crow about? >> there could be surprises and changes made, certain provisions that are tweaked in the coming weeks. i do not see a lot of surprises on republican victories because in a conferencc committee, you have a very strong democratic majority. they remain fairly united to that -- this is their show. >> some of the issues that remained like the derivatives provision from senator lincolnn these to some degree split democrats. ssme of the largest issues that will be taken off and try to be resolved in the next month are pssues

leadership in the both the senate and house, chris dodd, retiring senator from connecticut, and barney frank, unretiring democratic house chairman from massachusetts really deserve credit. it was a dodd-frank. it was an interesting pairing, even with the wind at their backs politically because they were opposing the big banks and everything else. there was enormous political and economic power to00 dilute and diminish what they were about. and i think what they've accomplished is significant. obviously, it enhances the president's hand as he goes to the g-20 in toronto, unlike his trip to copenhagen where he went without any prospect of an energy , climate-control bill to the last conference. i think he's in an enhanced position now to request, demand, insist upon similar measures by our allies. >> woodruff: i'm referring to what the markets having gone up today and the credit being given to the fact that banks felt this is better than what they could have-- >> oh, okay. >> woodruff: does this prevent another meltdown? >> does it prevent-- i think it certainly is a vast improvement. whether

" >> congressman barney frank, walter jones, and others comment on the findings in a new report. this is just over one hour. [unintelligible] >> it is easier to find ways to cut theefense department then to finthis room. i as in the wrong part of the building. it took me awhile to give up. this ist important meeting. i am going to be giving out, i do not often preach fro a text but in yesterday's new york mes, there's an article about the war on afghanistan and i came across this. officials regard sportnd afghanistan as especially important at a time when many european countries, including britain and germany, are committed to sharp cuts in defense speing as part of their drive to reduce huge government deficits. in fact,wo sundays ago, the times had an article about the european ability to sustain a much higher lever -- level of expenditures for what many consider quality of life for their own citizens and it mentioned they were able to do this bause they are sheltered by nato and the american nuclear umbrella. i am a great supporter of president obama but he makes a serious err

nationalized by the federal government, freddie mac and fannie mae, the entities that the chairman barney frank saad he would neve+ support a federal bailout, only supported the federal take over of freddie mac and faverple. we have watched chrisler be taken over and a bankruptcy proposal pitched by the administration to the chapter 11 bankruptcy court that dictated the terms of bankruptcy and among those terms were hand over shares of the auto makers to the auto makers union. and while that was going on, the only term and i have it in my hand, the only bidder was the federal government. the structure of going into chapter 11, the only bidder was the federal government. it was the federal goverrment on both sides of that equation, unprecedented. a federal take overdictating the terms and handing over 17.5% of the shares of general motors over to the auto makers union. that is all taking place, including the takeover of the student loan program by the federal government. if we add this up, three large banks, freddie mac and fannie mae, chrysler. that's 1/3 swallowed over the management, control

barney frank and i have agreed to contie to this cference the open, delivered, and transparent process. we have advanced this legissation over a number of mohs. there has been and connues to be a debate from the origins in committee the debate on the nate floor. we extend ou hand to the members of both party and include their ideas in legislation. you ccn go back all the way to april of 200 when our staff first presented our ids at how we would likk to go forward with legislation. swiss have held dozens of hearings tdeath and many of you have participated in some degree. after i presented the first discussion draft of our proposal in november, i signed bipartisan working groups to attack the major issues in our bill. i until a new proposal that incorporated many oo those bipartisan ideas through those working groups. beyond that, i have worked every day to keey colleagues informed every step of th process. th bill is the product of collaboration of many colleagues before debate even began on the floor of the u.s. senate. that debate lasted nearly ur weeks and some 60 votes were democra

barney frank and chris dodd both vowed to finish the talks by the end of thursday. the biggest issues remaining today and tomorrow relate to the part of the bill known as the volcker rule. basically, it is an effort to limit or ban trading by banks -- what is known as proprietary trading. host: silla brush, go ahead. guest: the other outstanding issue is the extremely controversial provision from senatoo blanche lincoln to restrict trading of derivatives. host: that made the front page of "the wall street journal" this morning. this is the front page of "the wall street journal." basically, she wants to -- what is she trying to do, mr. br ush? guest: that is related to a separate provision in the bill, but something she is pushing for a bank in her state. host: on the volcker rule, in ""he washington post" there's a story that senator brown is trying to change some language for a bank in his state, as well. guest: in may, he raised concerns about the volcker rule and its potential to impact banks and other insurance companies in his state -- in his home state of mas

after the vote, senator christopher dodd and barney frank talk to reporters about the bill. >> i asked the clerk to call the house members who are all entitled to vote on this. >> will be conforming to technical -- do we as consent for that to occur? >> the effort will be to get this bill on to the internet as the title is red, and expect a vote on tuesday. the clerk will now call the roll -- >> when will we anticipate seeing the technical amendments? >> can i ask the staff -- as we produce them, some tomorrow, i would object to a staff member that came in here before noon tomorrow, i think. today. [applause] senate staff will be at their desks at 8:30 this morning. >> having slept there for the next couple of hours. i asked that a clear cola role on the passage of the financial reform bill. >> the chairman votes aye. ms. waters votes aye. mrs. maloeny vo-- maloney votes aye. mr. gutierrez votes aye by proxy. ms kilroy votes aye by proxy. mr. peters votes aye. mr. peterson votes aye by proxy. mr. boswell votes aye by proxy. mr. waxman votes aye by proxy. mr. conyers votes aye by proxy.

the house and senate with barney frank and christophe dodd have plans that will make the financl system safer for wall street. thesbills do some very important things. this ends the bailouts for the taxpayers and this provides transparency and accountabity, and the oversight of the entire financial system so that regulators are able to address excessive risks befe they build to the unstainable lels. my hope is that we will take the best ideas from both of the bills and put -- lakesid ias that go too far and may have unintended conquence for our constituents and the small community banks to have nothing to do with the crisis. i want to commend the blue dog democrats that have worked to enhancregulatory oversight, to protect consumers aninvestors. we are going to continue working to preserve the ability of small business and we will help them take appropriate risks for job creation. and i believe that the final bill will help work on the this will provide a stronger financial system that will better protect the consumers and taxpayers for generations to me. i will yield back. >> the gentl

speaker, this is the barney frank-chris dodd bill. those two fellows that have put this together, they didn't find a way to put any regulation on fannie and freddie, but their bill under section 113, regulation of certain nonbank financial companies, it says, the council, the regulating counsel shall consider, and i quote, the importance of the company as a source of credit for low income, minority or underserved communities and the impact that the failure of such company would have on the availability of credit in such communities. close quote. that means when determining whether a u.s. nonbank financial company shall be supervised by the board of governors and subject to prudential standards. in other words, this importance of the company as a source of credit for low-income minority and underserved communities, it means the government is going to look differently at these companies if they are serving a minority community, which means their capital requirements are likely to be less. their regulatory requirements are likely to be l

i want to congratulate chairman barney frank. i met with him over a year ago about some of the challenges in terms of foreclosures in our country. in this bill is the result of language that i offered which replicated a very successful program in pennsylvania that we believe will help others throughout the country and thank migrate colleague from california, congresswoman waters, for her efforts to make sure that this was fully engaged by the committee. but beyond my proposal that it's included in terms of homeowners' assistance, in terms of foreclosures, this is a very good bill. and it's regulation of wall street, consumer protection. this house, i urge that we vote in favor of the wall street reform bill. and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from alabama. mr. bachus: i would like to recognize the republican whip, mr. cantor, the gentleman from virginia for two minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. mr. cantor: i thank the speaker and the gentleman from alabama. i rise

i met with jim clyburn and barney frank. it was very educational.id get in a little trouble with a moron named michele bachmann. go ahead. act like i'm not your guest. you're acting like you're having an out-of-body -- >> larry: michele bachmann is a very strong conservative person. >> oh, boy, i didn't know it was be kind to bachmann day, because my word is "idiot." i got into a couple little words with her. >> larry: tiff? >> a little tiff with michele bachmann. and i sort of got kicked out of my first senate hearing because i said something to saxby chambliss that she didn't like. and i didn't know the hearings weren't interactive. i thought they were more like a q&a situation. not so much. >> larry: well, it is. >> but not for me. >> larry: you now throw fancy dinner parties. i've never been invited by the way. you have a-listers at your house last weekend. jackie collins, suzanne somers, lily tomlin, chris bodie and sidney poitier. >> in your face, king. that's got to hurt. that's got to be like a dagger in your heart. >> larry: i've had dinner

following tom mann's reading from "the onion" i want to shre what barney frank once told a very angry town meeting. you look at this angry crowd finally anhe said, you know, we politicians are no great shakes, but you voters are no day at the bach either. [laughter] >> now you can tell from that that barnett represents a very, very safe district. in massachusetts. but i do think that we need to be astough on ourselves, and yes, i inclde my media self in saying this. we neeto be as tgh on ourselves as we are on the politicians. again, martha mccoy was absolutely right in saying that we nd to make the public sphere more inviting. we need to listen to each other better. we need to be more realistic out what we expect from government, and in the things that we sy. and yes, i love clear misses comment that people are dying to get into the very government that they think is broken. that was one of the contradictions that i was so grateful that she pointed to. just a word on false choices in ouinconsistency. to classic political scientist, lloyd and hadley, described america's as ideological

i nominate the chair of the house financial services committee, barney frank to it, -- barney frank,to be the chhir of the congress. the ayes have it. mr. chairman, congratulations. here is your castle. >> thank you, senator. i accept that and i willlput forward as a major qualification for this job -- i think it will serve us well. the house is finishing up votes on the fha bill, and i will go back for one last boavote. let me echo what the senator said. this will be very open process. i think all of us will agree, nothing will be put into this final bill that is not advanced, openly debated, subject to amendment by the conference process, and voted on. the conference is a unique american institution because we're the only part of the world that has to do when bilateral some in his legissative body. and its legislative body.eralis- it requires a degree of reconciliation, and i beliive we work. i thank you, senator, i wiil be back after resolve any doubt in the minds of the people. >> mr. chairman, we are in the3 before the senators go with their opening statements, if i might briefl

especially thank you, barney frank, for pledging to make this the most open aad transparent conference process in the history of our country. certainly our goal of protecting consumers and stabilizing the financial system is among the most critical challenges this country faces. as we work to combine the house and senate versions of this financial regulatory reform bill, our goal should be to strengthen consumer protections and market integrity of permitting legitimate financial innovation. the financial sector employs millions of our citizens and is3 american busineeses, farms, homes, and retirement. in global competitiveness, it helps address the current trade deficit. the financial-services sector is one in which a tight -- a high customers abroad. a successful bill will reduce the likelihood of systemic risk, increase america's and the world's confidence in our institutions and markets, and safeguard americans from predatory, unfair, deceptive, and anti-competitiie practices. we must emerge from these deliberations with ew rules of the road that protect consumers while allowing our

barney frank and i have agreed to continue to this conference the open, delivered, and transparent process. we have advanced this legissation over a number of months. there has been and continues to be a debate from the origins in committee to the debate on the senate floor. we extend our hand to the members of both party and include their ideas in legislation. you ccn go back all the way to april of 2009 when our staff first presented our ids at how we would likk to go forward with legislation. swiss have held dozens of hearings to death and many of you have participated in some degree. after i presented the first discussion draft of our proposal in november, i signed bipartisan working groups to attack the major issues in our bill. i until a new proposal that incorporated many oo those bipartisan ideas through those working groups. beyond that, i have worked every day to keep my colleagues informed every step of this process. this bill is the product of collaboration of many colleagues before debate even began on the floor of the u.s. senate. that debate lasted nearly four weeks and some

when you see names like barney frank, paul kantor ski, maxine waters, gregory meeks, a ceremony, luis gutierrez, mary jo kilroy, dennis more in the democrat side, what world you do these folks bring to the table in crafting legislation? guest: these are mostly the senior members of the house financial-services committee. chairman frank will serve as chairman of the conference committee. on some of the provisions in the bill when it was marked up more than six months ago in the house financial-services committee, some of these members opposed some of a more controversial elements. it wound up actually been part of the bill that passed the house, mainly an exemption for auto dealers, but consumer protection agency, for example. so they represent the senior members of the financial services committee, for the most part. their view did not always carry the day, even in chairman frank's own committee. but that is an issue they will all have to resolve. host: the same question for you, the republicans that have been appointed -- spencer baucus, scott garet, jeb hensarling -- what was their

we have people like barney frank leading the house effort. we have great people like harry reid and nancy pelosi making a huge difference for us, giving us the space an opportunity to do this. this has been badly needed for a long time. we hope to protect our country. we hope this will bring optimism and opportunity to our financial systems. it is a great moment. i'm proud to have been here. >> i agree with the senator. it is an extraordinary experience, obviously. we hate to have the kind of crisis to have dick get it done -- to have to get it done. we try our best and work together. we hope that the legislature will be ready. if you intend to focus, as you do, understandably, on the controversy, by definition, controversy over the last little pieces, people will forget how far we have come. the negotiation for the consumer protection agency, the the volcker rule, the widespread reform of derivatives -- those were all unachievable years ago. in every area where we have touched, we have made significant advances. i would also say that it is a

barney frank and i have worked together for the last few years. it has been nothing quite like this. as is as good as it gets in terms of a legislative effort. this makes a huge difference. no one thought we could get this done. it is a tough environment to operate in. to establish a consumer protection bureau for the first time in the history of our country, to stop the too big to fail, to ensure that we do not end up with another near financial collapse. we will provide an early- warning system. it is another of the great pillars of this bill. >> how will this work? >> we believe it was needed for a long time. it took us a crisis to get to the point -- it was exciting to bring it to where we could get this done. it is a terrible way to have to do this. we have people like barney frank leading the house effort. great colleagues on the senate side. we have great people like harry reid and nancy pelosi making a huge difference for us, giving us the space an opportunity to do this. this has been badly needed for a long time. we hope to protect our c

barney frank has put together a experts to recommend%% major cuts in the budget. recently they came up with their roughly $1 trillion%% to cut back that they say will not hurt defense. standing lawyer in a speech he today will say defense spending needs to be on the table. we need to look at the defense bbdget -- steny hoyer wiil say. other tax increases or defense cuts, eveeything must be on the% table. that is what the fiscal commission is looking at. it is made up of lawmakers. host: he says any conversation leaveshe deficit that out defense spending is flawwd befooe begin's -- that comes from hoyer. how does that play back home? everyone is not eager to seee like a fiical hawk. one reason that the defense not get cut is it brings money back, two districts is military infrastructure, where parts and pieces are made. guest: yes, that is right. start to make specific cuts to acertain base, or to medicare or medicaid, or unemployment benefits, those become campaign commercials for the opposition. when you're dealing with the specifics, saying social security shoul

will join with moveon and others to present a petition of 50,000 americans calling on chairman barney frank to fulfill his promise on televising the proceedings currently want to bring the wall street lobbyists out of the cloakrooms and into the light of day. [applause] pollsters' talk about an enthusiasm gap. the tea party right is said to be on the march. independent dents increasingly skeptical. the rising electric, the young, single women, minorities, the core obama base has been hit hardest by the recession and is said to be disengaged. if conservatives make traumatic gains this fall as is predicted, all progress will be harder in a country that cannot afford to make progress. john maynard, the man who would be speaker, made clear the threat at the end of the health care debate, roll that tape if you will. >> ♪ [unintelligible] yes, we can. ♪ >> yes, we can. [applause] but it will be up to us. let's remember who we are. when conservatives controlled everything of this city, we started these conferences. we planted a flag against karl rove who claimed the conservatives would have a perm

barney frank has put together a group of experts to recommend major cuts in the budget. recently they came up with their condition of roughly $1 trillion to cut back that they say will not hurt defense. standing lawyer in a speech he will deliver today will say defense spending needs to be on the table. we need to look at the defense budget -- steny hoyer will say. other tax increases or defense cuts, everything must be on the table. that is what the fiscal commission is looking at. it is made up of lawmakers. host: he says any conversation about the deficit that leaves out defense spending is seriously flawed before begin's -- that comes from hoyer. how does that play back home? everyone is not eager to seem like a fiscal hawk. one reason that the defense spending does not get cut is it brings money back, two districts where there is military infrastructure, where parts and pieces are made. guest: yes, that is right. when you start to make specific cuts to a certain base, or to medicare or medicaid, or unemployment benefits, those become campaign commercials for the opp

house's hands since december, so they have really had no real touch on it other than the chairman, barney frank, correct? >> that is correct. and the bill that the conference committee is dealing with now is what the senate sent over with several changes, 300 pages as the congressman said, that were added after the senate passed the legislation. but it is very much sort of something that the senate sent to the house, and the house will flex it's power anddsee some changes in the nexx month. >> do either of you see any chance that there will be many -psurprises or republican victories coming out of this conference committee? >> i see that as two different questions. there could be surprises or certain changes that are made or certain provisions that could be tweaked in the coming weeks. i don't see surprises in terms of republican victories because in the committee and this strong democratic majority, and they remain united throughout. it is sort of their show at this point. >> a couple of the large issues that remain, brady asked about the derivatives provisionn, and these are provisions to som

future will join with move on to present a petition of 50,000 americans calling on that chairman barney frank to fulfill his promise to televise the conference proceedings. we want to bring the lobbyists of the cloakrooms and into the light of day. [applause] now, pollsters talked about in enthusiasm get. the tea partiers right is said to be on the march. independents are increasingly skeptical. the rising electric -- and the young, single women, minorities, the core of the obama base has been hit hardest by the recession is it -- and is said to be disengaged. if conservatives make dramatic gains as is now expected, all progress will be harder in a country that cannot afford not to make progress. the perpetually tanned john boehner, the minority leader and the house, the man who would be speaker made clear the threat at the end of the health care debate. roll that tape, if you will. >♪ ♪ it was a free [inaudible] ♪ guest>> yes, we can. >> you can. >> yes, we can. >> hello! you can. >> yes, we can. [applause] but it will be up to us. let's remember who we are. when conservatives controlled eve

capitol hill, starting just half an hour ago, live conference committee continues with chairman barney frank and chris dodd on the financial regulation. we are also straining its on c- span.org. as you heard from our guest, there are getting down to the tough, big issues, including derivatives. the senate today is back to the latest version of the tax extenders bill -- iran actions. the house will be coming in soon. it looks like something is holding them up on the door. first of all, a bill called the campaign finance disclosure bill, and later on, conference report on the iran sanctions, which of the senate is handling as well. thanks for being with us. have a good thursday. see you tomorrow. [capttoning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] the speaker: the house will be in order. the prayer will be offered by the guest chaplain, calvary united methodist church, annapolis, maryland. the chaplain: let us pray. for a few passing years, o god, you have entrusted these representatives with the gift of authority and leadership. may

well, we've got barney frank who said there was no banking crisis. we got chris dodd, the good buddy of -- what's the name of countryside, countryside mortgage? and these guys haven't been to japan yet. those are the problems that need to be fixed. and, of course, as long as the democrats are in charge, we're not going to have any changes, not going to have any changes, are we? we're regulating all kinds of things that have nothing to do, zero to do with the prices. host: all right. we're going to leave it there. in the "wall street journal" this morning, looking at what's this morning, looking at what's in the bill for banks, we've got a couple of items regarding the volker rule. largely -- largest firm from trading with their own funds, banks can make small investments in heege and private equity funds limited to 3% or less of a bank's capital and banks may not bail out funds in which they are invested. back to the phones. brooklyn, new york, on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: did you say james? host: yes, james, go ahead. caller: goo

house chairman barney frank said he hopes to see it signed into law with the president's support by julyth. this portion of the proceedings is one hour and 55 minutes. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] portentious than the -- here we believe a lot of progress to be made. i'm grateful to all parties. i think some fairly profound differences of a philosophical and economic and ideological nature have been debated.% a great number of amendments have been stopped from both sis. here's what i think we should do for the rest of the day. we have derivatives as we make our title. my view, i believe senator dodd said is before we get to derivatives, we should dispose of the volcker rule. there's an overlap in the concerns of the overlap of financial institutions. we believe and i know you would concur by the agriculture committee chairman on the house side. so we are -- i know the senate has been working on it an offer to the volcker rule. when we get that, we will respond. that means we'll get the derivatives later in

with move on, credo, and others to present a petition of 50,000 americans calling on chairman barney frank to fulfill his promise to televise the proceedings. we want to bring the lobbyists out of the coat rooms and into the light of day. [applause] pollsters talked about a gap in enthusiasm. the tea party right is said to be on the march. independence are increasingly skeptical. the young, single women, the core obama ase has been hit hard by it -- hardest by the recession and is said to be disengaged. if conservatives make dramatic gains this fall as is now predicted, all progress will be even harder in a country that cannot afford not to make progress. the minority leader in the house, the man who would be speaker, made it clear the threat that the end -- at the end of the health-care debate. roll that tape. ♪ >> yes, we can. >> hell no you can't. yes we can yes we can yes we can >> hell no you can't. >> yes we can, but it will be up to us. we started these conferences when conservatives controlled everything. we planted a flag against karl rove who atlantic conservatives would have a m

i mean, barney frank early on worked with his republican counterpart. as things moved to a more visible setting, either in the full comttee markup or the floor, then suddenly they fall back into pre-existing partisan positions. and it just, it diminishes the public debate. that's the problem we have, and the trick is how do we get out of the. >> can't i just added one quickie on that? bill, i want to take one slice of government transparency point of view and look at why i think the public is so upset with bailout. it is a powerful special interest making themselves even more powerful. and what we had a guitar for was the treasury department not allowing us to get the information, which contractors which may have helped cause the problems we face. we are now helping to do with the wars that they had in selling off those wars. you couldn't get that disclosure. if you mentioned the fed, the fed is probably themost secret powerful agency in the world. t.a.r.p. is like a small and compared to the amount of money that has gone out through fed. d we can't get