but can we look, please, at document evidencing a lunch at chequers with baroness thatcher on the fourthof january, 1981. it is your exhibit krm 40 m. which may well have been tab 15 in bundle. you will see that mr. income it is ms. thatcher's press secretary noted this on the fifth of january, 81, our number 01626 address to the prime minister, attached is a record of salient points of your lunch yesterday with rupert murdoch. in line with your wishes, the attached does not go outside number 10 and is of course treated commercial and conference. this is a document which didn't go to the public domain into march of this year, mr. murdoch. do you understand that? >> yes. >> according to the history of the times, the murdoch years published by harpercollins in 2005, page 28, you previously have had no recollection whatsoever of this lunch, is that right? >> correct. i still don't, to be honest. but i totally accept mr. ingham minutes, detailed minutes, which sound to me to be direct. >> well, it was quite -- >> i think i would ask mrs. thatcher. she said why don't you come to lunch on sund