criminologist barry crispberg says there's no one size fits all solution to crime and punishment. >> the issue is not punishment. we're going to punish these people. the question is what's enough. you know, is 20 years enough? is 25 years enough? is 35 years enough? >> reporter: as policymakers grapple with that question, the state hopes to expand programs to help more lifers win freedom. >> as we just heard, lifers must demonstrate that they won't be a risk to public safety if they get out of prison. the governor has veto power, but the decisions are made by the board of parole hearings. earlier, i spoke with the board's executive officer jennifer shafer. jennifer shafer, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> you look at thousands of cases every year, what do you look for when deciding whether to release an inmate? >> well, our first consideration is, of course, public safety and whether the person currently poses a risk of public safety. but we look at a variety of factors. we look -- we're required by law to look at all reliable and relevant information. so that