tom: that is the inherent optimism of barry eichengreen. idea what the new-mnnew is? barry: it is that the government has to do things to broaden the employment growth, low interest rates, provide an opportunity for infrastructure investment. the case for that is very strong. brendan: we talked with sallie krawcheck about the importance of asset management, there is more wealth than there ever was. is that part of the problem -- is there too much wealth looking for a return and not enough return looking for wealth? barry: that is the problem in part. people worry about secular stagnation. they worry about a high level saving relative to investments and we see evidence of that and low interest rates. tom: you and i study this for 12 minutes in school, where interest rates within the real economy and interest rates are within your banking world, you need to get away from this zero bound to create the animal spirit. sallie: sure, it is hard to get a return these days and thanks are looking for rates to go up. that is the richest kind of earning