and so on up until the modern era but the barry goldwater conservatism in arguably the william buckley william if i interviewed. back when he was alive for a book i wrote a number of years ago and i have. without going into all that. they seem to hold to an ideal almost an idealized world and it seemed. the hierarchy was important i mean you know kirks the first chapter the conservative mind is devoted to burke and burke's whole thing as you point out was it was hierarchy. but there was utopianism there was associated with the goldwater movement the drew in people like like hillary clinton and me when we were teenagers i was thirteen and you know when i went door to door my dad for barry goldwater and that seems eight to have been largely lost and corrupted you know if there's any little piece of it left it might be in the ron paul movement by modern conservatives have they. modern conservatives seem to be not about the elegant discussion but rather the defense of billionaires and transnational corporations am i misunderstanding the sore is. has there been some sort of a transformation

my dad from barry goldwater and that seems eight to have been largely lost and corrupted you know if there's any little piece of it left it might be in the ron paul movement by modern conservatives have they. modern conservatives seem to be not about the elegant discussion but rather the defense of billionaires and transnational corporations am i misunderstanding the sore is. has there been some sort of a transformation or aura or a seizure of conservatism by the very wealthy. well it's important that you know first of all this utopian element of conservatism because it's oftentimes been denied by conservatives themselves and by historians but i think you're absolutely right and again this goes back to the very beginning that what's what's made conservatism such a kind of a strange animal and hard to get you know one's mind around is that it has been this defense of inequality of this defense of hierarchy but it has been defended an extraordinarily utopian and oftentimes almost futuristic progressive terms and goldwater in that regard was very much in keeping with the conservative mo

he wants to go on testing more bombs and his name is barry goldwater, if he is elected they might startkes are too high to stay home. >> here are another couple of spots that build on that theme as goldwater as a dangerous radical. >> this particular phone only rings in a serious crisis. keep it in the hands of a man who has proven himself responsible. vote for president johnson on november 3rd. >> and this one uses goldwater's words against him. >> on october 24th, goldwater called the nuclear bomb, merely another weapon. merely another weapon? vote for president johnson, the stakes are too high for you to stay home. >> nuclear was not the only subject that they were using against goldwater, one spot that sid was primarily sponsored for ridiculed goldwater's statement of sawing off the eastern sea board of the united states. [ sawing sounld -- sound ] >> in a saturday evening post article, barry gold waiter said, sometimes i think this country would be better off if we can saw off the eastern seaboard and let it float to sea. can he be expected to serve all the people justly and fairly

vote for barry goldwater. >> so as you can see, the goldwater spot is really kind of frozen in time.ferent from the spots that were shown a decade earlier. so now we arrive at the 1964 johnson campaign and the spots that quite literally changed american politics. what would become known as the daisy girl spot was produced by doyle dane burnback, was seen that night by an estimated 50 million people, and i would like to note that one of the creators of the spot is with us today. sid, would you stand up and raise your hand? this is sid meyers. [applause] sid is a legend -- >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> well, that'll be determined later, i think. sid is a legend in the advertising business, and he was a senior art director for ddb in 1964 and was a key player in the creation of the daisy girl spot and some of the others that you'll see in a moment. he's joined here with some of his colleagues with the new firm they've created, chuck schroeder, ed giles and don, and sid's wife bonnie is here as well, so i hope you'll get a chance to visit with him and talk to him. these are the original m

and besides that it wasn't what barry goldwater the republican nominee for president one hundred sixty four believed and he would have been outraged this was a republican party that rallied behind two white eisenhower elected him president united states twice in fifty two and fifty six eisenhower also did not believe in an all powerful military security complex famously saying this. it is classifiers missionizing fifty three. every gun that is made every warship launched every rocket fired signifies in the final game a fan from those longer and not. those who are cold and i'm not but. this world in arms is not spending money alone. it is spending in the sweat of its labors. the genius of it signed the obvious to. the cost the one modern heavy bomber is this. a modern brick school in more than thirty. two electric power plant each serving a town of sixty on the lakes. it is. only possible . it is on the miles of country. and. we paid for a single fighter plane with us i have many invoices we. we pay for a single destroyer with new homes and of how. more than a thousand feet. that is not

and besides that it wasn't what barry goldwater the republican nominee for president one hundred sixty four believed and he were been outraged this was a republican party that rallied behind dwight eisenhower elected him president united states twice in fifty two and fifty six eisenhower also did not believe in an all powerful military security complex famously saying this in his cross of iron speech in one hundred fifty three. every gun that is made every warship launched every rocket fired signifies in the final game the fans from those who are not. those who are cold and are not going. this world in arms is not spending money. you spend in the sweat of its labors. do you see the sign of the obvious to. the cost modern heavy bombers is it. a modern brick school in more than thirty. two electric power plant each serving its sound sixty. two. only possible. it is some to be mine. the. we pay for a single fighter plane with us i have many invoices. we pay for a single destroyer with new homes and put it how. more than a thousand feet. that is not a way of life at all. in anything. under

, explain that. >> well, george romney was running for reelection in 1964 and barry goldwater was theominee and george romney did not endorse him and barry goldwater got creamed in michigan by lbj, but george romney went marching to victory and a lot of conservative republicans were very bitter about it. and guess who is running now for president, mitt, george's son and they think he's a little suspicious, as somebody who's not a down the line, trustworthy republican and maybe there's some kind of lineage going on here. >> and you look in massachusetts when he was running. >> exactly. >> that's an old story. >> old story, oh, they've long memories here. >> bret: in michigan. >> with the conservatives, yes. >> bret: let me go down the line. what are the things we're not focusing on as national media about michigan that maybe we're overlooking about this place, and the politics here? >> well, i would say, again, that autos are sort of the sacred institution of michigan. and i think that romney may have a logical explanation for why he took his stance, but to the voters, it's going to so

i'm waiting to hear a definition that was actually offered in the 1964 campaign by barry goldwater.you knew in '64 what you were positioning against because there was an ideology there and it was coherent. and it was consistent with what he had acted upon across his career. it would have been a very interesting race had we actually had a debate between john kennedy and barry goldwater as proposed or between lyndon johnson and barry goldwater because they each incarnated a philosophy that they could express, very different views of government, very difference-- different views of federalism, very different roles of the individual in society. it would have been a very, very interesting campaign because it was there. i don't hear it there in the republican candidates. i am not clear with these conservatives about what they mean by this ideology. and i have the sense that they're chasing this thing called the base and trying to identify with it without bringing the rest of us along in an understanding of what it is. so fashion for me as a person who would like to understand what it is t

barry goldwater was famous for his doom's day rhetoric. i'm kind of hearing the same stuff coming out of rick santorum's mouth. i get the feeling that he knows where the nuke button is and he's reckless and can't wait to get to it. one more thing about santorum, he talks a good game about made in america but his tax returns from 2008 she was driving a german made audi a6. not good if mr. american manufacturing. i wonder what 2012 presidential candidate santorum would say about that? >> elite snobs. >> elite snobs? joining me now is msnbc contributor e.j. dionne, senior fellow at the brookings institution and columnist for "the washington post" and may i also say a professor and i've been in your classroom at georgetown and i know you care about education so i'm just going to throw this out to you, e.j. what would america be like if we cut all funding on a federal and state level to public education? >> first of all, let me say this chevy malibu driver is happy to be with you. >> good for you. i've got a silverado at home. >> when your book

vote for barry goldwater. >> so as you can see the goldwater spot is kind of frozen in time.h different from the spots shown a decade earlier. so now we arrive at the 1964 johnson campaign and the spot that quite literally changed american politics. what would become known as the daisy girl spot was produced by doyle was seen that dmit night by estimated 50 million people. i would like to note that one of the creators of the spot is it with us today. sid, would you stand up and wave your hand. this is sid meyers [applause] sid is a legend -- [inaudible] that will be determined later i think. sid is a legend in the advertising business. he was a senior art director for ddb in 1964 and was key creation in the daisy girl spot and some of the others in a moment. he is joined with some of his colleagues new firm, creative people. chuck schroeder at giles and don and sid's wife bonnie are here as well. hope you get a chance to visit with him and talk to them. these are the original "mad men" you're seeing. we'll watch the spot, daisy girl's spot. shown one time, only once as a paid

. >> well, that was the rationale in 1964, barry goldwater. >> yes, exactly! for a long time. i think in the case of santorum, there's also -- i mean, i'm pretty sure, i believe he voted for medicare part "d." >> he did. so the question of, what is conservative? bush was the most conservative person ever when he was successful, and as soon as he stopped being successful, conservative ran away from him and all of a sudden said his problem was that he was a big government conservative. it's unclear to me that the same won't happen to rick santorum if, in fact, he's defeated, right? i mean, conservatism never fails, it is always failed. >> but the '64 example, what happened after barry goldwater, then the most conservative republican to ever get the nomination is conservatism went into a fast retreat in republican politics, and liberalism advanced faster than it ever had, with the legislation lbj was able to do after that and going forward to the '70s. >> you could argue that that's beginning to happen now, regardless of whether rick santorum was a nominee. you h

his books include before the storm, barry goldwater and the unmaking of the american consensus, nixon land, the rise of a president and fracturing of america, which became a "new york times" best seller. and to complete the try up fer aunt of goldwater and nixon, he's now at work about a book about ronald reagan called the invisible bridge. and his books have received glowing reviews from people both on the left and on the right, which is quite unusual especially in third rail material like his. he's been chief political correspondent for the village voice. and his essays and articles and reviews have appeared in places like the new republic slate, the "new york times," "washington post" and many others. rick in some ways is our journalist slash historian on the panel, although everyone else here has also written in what we might call journalistic venues and so there's no particular could you be bihole that anyone is in. so i would ask you please to join me in welcoming the panel. [ applause ] so i'd like to start by asking the question, and i'll ask it many different ways, of what is

and i will quote senator barry goldwater in his 1964 presidential acceptance speech of the republican nomination, where he said extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. you have not done your job as far as sunshine and the citizens of this city. you took an oath to support and defend the constitution, and yet when citizens come to you and say "we were denied an opportunity at a public meeting to meaningfully comment and participate," you ignore it. you side with the city 100% of the time. now, it is kind of hard to argue with that record as being one that is totally unjustified. >> hi, commission lovers. -- here. first of all, i wanted to congratulate you on having a televised version of this meeting. it is long overdue. i am glad that he's found money in the budget for it. or -- sorry. i want to say that i am sad to see the poor record you have to date on the enforcement of the sunshine referrals. almost every one that has been sent to you has been dismissed without a public hearing, and without even regulations in place to di

he was talking with barry goldwater and hugh scott and john rhodes, they all came up and persuaded him he had to leave. they were already working on the resignation speech, it was nonsense. it was horrible. who was i talking to just recently? i was with hague and he had sort of deputized me to go talk to the staff. some were bitter and angry, what are we quitting for, this is awful. he sent me over to talk to trisha, julie and d.d. in the sun room, explain to them that the old man had to go. very rough. >> let me turn to bob lichter at george mason university. any final thoughts or questions, bob? >> pat, you have been in politics as a commentator, communicator, candidate, just about everything, and i wondered if you have any single principle you would give to somebody running for high office that could structure the way you try to communicate with the electorate. >> i don't know if you can. i don't know if you can. we're all different. and as we talked about president obama and president nixon and ronald reagan, how different reagan and nixon were in terms of communication. and what t

is very efficient, and i found things writ in 1964, jotting down notes about how he was with barry goldwater and also letters he wrote to -- if any of you were from california do you remember senator thomas kiickel? agnew wrote him a letter saying 1963 that said i'm endorsing you for president and he wrote him saying i don't know who you are and i'm not running. agnew said you're a practical person and i don't want the party to go on in a crazy, ideological direction left or right. there were jeps in the paper and the second thing about agnew and liberalism, he was someone who by 1972-73 had become conservative in large part because he really believed that the liberals were out to get him. he really believed that particularly the media and "the washington post" and "new york times" had begun to unfairly and he began to read a national review. he said they're giving me a fair shake and his aide told me that agnew really studied issues, he read a lot and he actually was intellectually curious. something that people don't give agnew credit for. he was very well versed, very well read but in ter

so the people we needed to get to win the nomination was john tower, barry goldwater and strom thurm thurman, not nelson rockefeller. romney was perceived as that part of the party. i remember the late nick timmish. it w it was before the bible shlg. we were on park avenue at the fabricated offices. he said you better get up to new hampshire. romney is working extremely hard doing four or five coffees a day and he's really doing the state in retail politics. i went to president nixon, vice president nixon and ig said timmish is not a hostile guy. he said horomney is breaking ground. nixon said he can wait for the final day. he announced on february 23nd o election year. the republicans would be like announcing right now. so he announced and went in there then. what happened is romney -- it was at any time mormonism. i don't recall mormonism being brought up. romney was running on moral decay and denouncing moral decay, and we said the ads looked like toothpaste adds, you know? he desperately tried to get nixon into a debate. we're not going to debate him, and nixon said the debate is

things about agnew writing in 1964 about -- jotting down notes about how he was worried about barry goldwater. also found letters he wrote to -- if any of you were from colorado, do you remember senator thomas keikel. agnew wrote him a letter saying i'm endorsing you for president. he wrote back and said i don't know who you are and i'm not running. agnew wrote and these papers are in the archives. agnew was saying you are a practical person and i don't want the party to go on in a crazy ideological direction either left or right. and so there are some real gems in the papers. the second thing about agnew and liberalism, he was someone who i think by 1972-'73 had become conservative in large part because he really believed that the liberals were out to get him. i mean, he really believed that particularly the media, "the washington post" and "the new york times" had really treated him unfairly, and he began to read national review and he said, you know, they're giving me a fair shake, and he also -- his aide, david keen, told me that agnew really actually studied issues. he read a lot and he

eisenhower and of course then the for crazies said oh we can't have this and so they came back with barry goldwater the right wing radicals saying no no we're not going to we're not going to go with that moderate eisenhower stuff and so you had goldwater goldwater blew up the election blew up the party brought back the moderates nixon and ford and that. brought out the crazies reagan and with and you know which was polish by george george h.w. bush which was followed by a right wing crazy george w. bush and you'd think that the party would be going into a moderate phase but it got dragged out by the tea party this weird thing that only lasted a couple of years from the radical going to the moderate to coming back to being the radicals and frankly it's because you know all this money can't was thrown into it by by the billionaires and the and the tea party so we'll see how this this whole tea party thing you know works out but it looked to me like it's going to get a little more moderate and so this is going to be these struggle in my opinion. for the republicans over the course of this year how do

which just handed lyndon johnson the daisy ad you know hey let's have a nuclear war and of course barry goldwater wanted to cut taxes for the rich and deregulate industry he failed and they collapsed and so we got the nixon republicans back to some i rational republicans i mean you could argue nixon was mentally ill but you know it for nixon actually nine hundred seventy three proposed what is almost absolute identical program as obamacare. and go back and look at the history of it it's quite a stone they created the e.p.a. during that time progressive taxation was you know strong and in place in fact the top tax rate was ninety one percent richard nixon thought that was just fine. the nixon rational republicans were followed by the radical republicans again ronald reagan reagan comes in office created the biggest tax cut for the rich since warren harding which produced and by the way that was so bad i mean that hurt the budget so badly that he also passed the biggest tax increase on working people in the entire history of the united states he started a war on working people by bus to the patco u

and he had not endorsed the republican standard bearer of barry goldwater in 1964. there was a battle raging for the heart of the republican party. hands but we hope that by running under a conservative party line he would drain enough republican votes away to defeat him. let me take you back to his first press conference and reuse some excerpts from his first press conference. understand, the conservative party has persuaded buckley to be the standard bearer to run for mayor. they're introducing into the public for the first time. this was of the press conference proceeds, portions of it. do you want to be mayor, sir? i have never considered it. back when you can imagine the conservative party officials standing they're aghast. this is their candid. what is he doing? do you think that is something at present that should be considered? buckley, not necessarily. what is important is a certain points of view should prevail. whether your i administer them is immaterial, assuming you are a good administrator. you were asking people to vote for you. if you when will you