to think about your favorite barry goldwater moment can i have you do a little bit of a two-part and a little bit of history about the paranoid extremism of the john burke society and then connect a little bit to the 1964 presidential campaign of barry goldwater and give some historical background to what we might be seeing today. >> it's great to be in arizona after having covered from afar. how many people in the audience had some sort of after an act or indirect connection one way or another? i set the clock at an earlier point exam he does. psychosis makes the argument i think proves the argument that it goes back seven decades. for all that time period the gop has both encourageded and exploited extremism. it didn't start with the tea party which is kind of the period that you're talking about. it didn't start with newt gingrich was puzzled another form in the '90s, and it started back in the 50s with mccarthyism and the relationship between the republican party and the john burke society which was basically outright paranoia that the government is riddled with of the secret ene

i knew i didn't have that and that was names and addresses and i was able to get 12,500, barry goldwater donors and changed everything. by the end of the first year in 1965 i had 100,000 goldwater donors and well past 10 million activists in the conservative movement. i was in fund raising or marketing, and name acquisition of mark zuckerberg. >> host: have you gotten rich in your bill? >> guest: i have not. i've lived very comfortably but to this day, the team will testify that i put everything possible back into the company, every fiber of my being, an entrepreneur, a risk taker, everything available back in the company. the reason i do that is 1965 i started my company in january and went to various conservative organizations, just a few of them out there, they all agree and now spend one dollar and 50% of the money comes back because you invest in long time value of that dollar, they come back. and 500,000. and mail another 5000. it is 5000 and i said i want to save western civilization, i know what to do so i tell you what i do, finance the money and to this day of the vast majority

that i didn't have that i needed, and that was names and addresses and i was able to get 12,500 barry goldwater donors, dollars plus donors. and that changed everything. and so by the end of that first year, when i started my company, 1965, i had 100,000 republic and goldwater donors, and now we're well past million donors. and activists, conservative movement. and i recognized early on that was the business i was in. i wasn't in fundraising too much or marketing i in the name acquisition business. mark zuckerberg figured that out too. mr. viguerie have you gotten rich in your business? i have not. as a matter of fact, i'm very comfortable. but to this day, my team will testify under that, i put everything possible back into the company. i'm a at every fiber. my being, i'm an entrepreneur as. i said earlier, the definition of an entrepreneur, if anything, is a risk taker. so to this day, i, i put everything i've got available back in the company and i learned reason do that is 1965 assad makeup and in january and i went to very conservative organization just a few of them out there and i said,

i you to think about your favorite barry goldwater moment. so, mr. corn, i'm wondering if i could have do also a little bit of a two parter and give us a bit about of history. the fact free extremism of john birch society and then maybe connect a little bit to the failed 1964 presidential campaign of barry goldwater and give us some back historical background to what we might be seeing today. thanks, alex. it's great to be in arizona after having covered mark finchem from afar for a lot of last year. nice to be here for that. let me ask you, how many people in the audience had some sort of director indirect connection with goldwater way or the other? a few hands still go up are good. okay. you know, i would my quite my answer follows up on what tim said although i set the at a much earlier point than he does. my book american psychosis you know makes the argument think proves the argument that republican republican relationship with extremism goes back seven decades it's waxed its waned but that for that time period throughout that time period the go

maybe connect a little bit about the failed 1964 presidential campaign of barry goldwater and give us some historical background about what we might be seeing today. >> thanks alex. it's great to be in arizona after having covered from afar for a lot of the last year. how many people in the audience had some director intoon necked connection with goldwater one way or another question rick if you can still go up. okay. my answer follows up on what tim said. set the clock at a much earlier point that he does. my book american psychosis makes the argument or proves the argument republican relationship with extremism goes back seven decades. it's >>, it's waned, but for all that time. throughout that time. the gop has both incurred and exploited extremism. it did not start the tea party which is the. you are talking about. it did not start that newt gingrich was in the form of extremism in the '90s. it really started back in the 50s with mccarthyism. the relationship between the republican party in the jon birx society which was basically outright paranoia the government is riddled dwight

i was able to 12500 barry goldwater donors and that changed everything. the end of that first years or my company 1965 at 100,000 republican goldwater donors and now we are well past 10 million donors in the conservative movement. and i recognize early on with the business i was not in fundraising too much or marketing i was in name acquisition i think mark zuckerberg figured that out too. stu what have you gotten rich in your business? >> i have not as a matter fact. i live very comfortably. but to this date my team will testify under oath i put everything possible back into the company. every fiber of my be linked being i'm an entrepreneur. as i said earlier the definition of an entrepreneur is a risk taker. so, to this day i put everything up got available back in the company. the reason i do that is a 1965 asserted my company in january.m out to various conservative organizations pray there's a few of them out there seven got goldwaterndest' donors and thens do a test of 5000 we sent that dollar 90 cents a dollar and 50% of the money comes back you ar

one thing that i needed was names and addresses, i got over 12 thousand barry goldwater donors by end of the first year, i started my company in 1965, i had 100 thousand republicans goldwater donors now we're past 10 million. and i recognize early on that was be that we were in i wasn't in fundraising or marketing, i was in the name acquisition. >> have you gotten rich in your business? >> i have not, i have lived comfortably, to this day my team will testify, that i put everything possible back into the company, i am at every fiber of my being i am a entrepreneur. the definition of a entrepreneur is a risk taker. to this day, i put everything that i have available in company, the reasons is 1965, i started my company in january, i went to various conservative organizations, and i said, i have goldwater donors let's do a test of 5,000, they agreed we would spend a dollar, and now you send a dollar 50% of your money comes back, in those days, two or 5 dollars would come back this great. now wild mail 50 thousand letters. and those results come in we'll mail 500 thousand, everyone says

and i was able to get 12, 000, 500 barry goldwater donors. and that changed everything. and then by the end of that first year when i started my company, i had 100,000 republican goldwater donors. and now we'll passed $10 million. and i recognized early on that the business i was in, i wasn't in fund raising too much, or marketing, i was in the name acquisition business. mark zuckerberg figure that out to. >> mr. viguerie, have you gotten rich in your domain? >> i haven't, as a matter of fact. but i'm very comfortable. to this day, my team will testify, and under oath, that i put everything possible back into the company. i am -- every fiber of my being, i'm an entrepreneur. as i said earlier, the definition of an entrepreneur, if anything, is a risk taker. in this day, i put everything i've got available back in the company. i learned, the reason i do that, is -- 1965, started my company in january. i went to very conservative organizations, just a few of them out there, and i said, i've got these goldwater donors. they all agreed. and we'd spend $1, now you spent $1 an

in fact a little morris county historical note barry goldwater was the last republican. to lose morris county for president until donald trump in 2020 from 64 to 2020 mars county voted for every republican presidential candidate. they rejected goldwater. and they rejected trump in 2020. and and i think there's an interesting i didn't put it in the book because nobody would really care about that historical comparison, but this audience will and i think it says something about historical comparison that we're making so i think it's it's an interesting chapter to place the chapters that follow into context. which is whether you're talking about birtherism or qanon or pizza gate or the election? conspiracies that we're not in a unique time. i i hate when i hear commentators on television say we are in the most dangerous time in the history of this country where more divided than we've ever been in our history. now. i had someone say that abc one day and and then george came to me and i said, i don't know. seems to me the civil war was probably a time when we were more divide

first generation about clay, barry goldwater et cetera. 100 percent of second generation conservatives, jerry falwell, myself et cetera, before we were conservatives, first we were anti communist. i love the glue that held a conservative movement together in those days back in the 60s, 70s 80s. >> what was the moment, that burning bush moment for you when it came to direct mail and mailing lists. you are visiting the national office in new york city? >> look, i was fortunate i had two-week summer camp national guard and a basal side of chicago. the first and only saturday we were there for the two weeks everybody goes into chicago, which is stays in the barracks and state reads national review. small out about an inch to two for four field directors for americans for constitutional action. in no longer exists, but i had a friend who worked for national vehicle, a journalist there. i can hear the cannons and the guns going off in new york and washington. the war was starting and i was desperate to get into the battle and fight the political left here in america. so i called my friend da

now passing in front of our vantage point, governor of iowa harold hughes, behind him senator barry goldwaterthe family. and military escort. proceeding slowly to the green with its canopy of trees at the ridge looking out over the valley on which rests the hoover library, and the cottage where this man was born. funeral procession slowly filing in to place. >> we shall begin this service with a period of reference silence in which we ask youall to join. let us pray, o lord. who does work through the lives of men we thank ye this day for life of herb ert hoover for his compassion, deep humility and his -- unchallenged integrity, for his family life, for his abiding faith in jesus christ. make us to rejoice, because nothing can separate us or him from theus love of christ. amen. it would be suitable at this time to read the passages of the new testament which are concerned with the resurrecttion in christ. there is one floor glory of the -- glory of the the sun and glory of the moon and the stars. stars differ from stars in glory, glory is with the resurrection of the dead. what is raised is i

in fact there's a historical note barry goldwater was the last of the republicans to lose morris county for president until donald trump was elected. six from 64 to 2020 every republican presidential candidatee rejected goldwater ad they rejected trump and 2020 and i think i didn't put in the book because i didn't care about that historical comparison to this audience will. i think it says something about the comparisons we are making. i think it's an interesting chapter in the chapters that follow in the context which is what you are talking about birtherism or qanon or pizza gate before the election. i hate when i hear -- we are in the most dangerous time in the history of t the country. we are more than we have ever been in our history. church came to me and i said i don't know. it seems to me civil war was a time we were more divided than we are now. it's a random thought. maybe a little common sense hyperbole. we have been here before and remember what happened after that. after that we won the presidency five of the next -- in 1968 in 1992. the republican party recovered and becam

and now passing in front of our vantage point, the governor of iowa, behind him senator barry goldwaterhe family, and military escort proceeding slowly to the green with its canopy of trees. looking out over the valley on which rests the hoover library and the cottage where this man was born. the funeral procession slowly filing into place. >> in accordance with heritage, which president hoover new and cherished, we shall begin this service with the period of reverent silence into which we ask you all to join let us pray, oh lord who works through the lives of men, we thank you this day for the life of herbert hoover, we thank you. for his compassion, his deep humility. his integrity, his family life his abiding faith in jesus christ, make this a time of rejoicing. along and uncorrupted life and the hope into which our friend has now entered. make us to rejoice because nothing can separate us or him from the love of christ. amen. it would be suitable at this time, the noblest passage of the new testament which are concerned with the resurrection in christ. there is one glory of the sun

and wahlberg walch and barry goldwater does this as well to a certain degree. i wonder, you know, how do they do that? >> one of the things that i argue, buckley, mostly, no one person had the ability to keep the gatekeeper. the berkshires were 16 -- a lot of them were very wealthy. buckley, just an example, he had a lot of ties to first leaders. some of his readers were either in the society, they were not members, but they were supportive of it. it was very hard to kind of disentangle. so he wrote a couple of editorials in the 60s denouncing welch's conspiracy theories. welch had argued and buckley said, youou know, too far. and then later in 65 especially as they were more radical on the vietnam war he did a bigger thing. when buckley ran for mayor of new york city in 1965, even though a lot were angry at him, he still had some so society, some that supported his mirror run. it was very hard, what i was interested in, though, the main stream, they bothan kind of wood and they tried to bring them into the fold at times but then they did not want -- they wante

movement has been trying to get the courts changed, the direction of the courts changed since the barry goldwater060s, it's been a constant thing to change the court. who has done more to accomplish that alive today who can say that other than mitch mcconnell? mitch mcconnell delivered and people on the left are horrified by what they see. it has contributed to the polarization and poisoned their politics but nonetheless, the court has spoken in a way they never would have spoken years ago. this is a much, much more conservative court and mitch mcconnell is one of the chief authors of that change. >> david gergen, always great to talk to you. thank you for being with us this sunday. >> thank you, fredricka. good to be here. >> nearly a hundred asylum seekers have funneled into new york since a migrant surge began last spring. how is the city responding? we'll have details next. i-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control,, vmware helps you keeeep your cloud options open. this is your summer to smile. to raise your glass and reconnect. to reel in the fun and savor every

well it was barry goldwater and a senator from utah. but isn't this great, you got confirmed.ou got confirmed. there was silence and then be. you told me that we couldn't get these two republican nominees yet, at this point bolton told me he got a little irritated and he said concentrating, you know, you have just been confirmed 98-0, goldwater had gone home sick on the night of the vote, and the utah senator was donating his kidney to his daughter. and finally scalia says that's right, thank you. >> this is part of how we talked about that he suffers losses he carries us with him. talk about that later. >> and when i came back to washington as a reporter in 1999, the first thing i did was right to justice antonin scalia and request an interview on fox news. in 1999, fox news was not as well-known as it would later become. it was not the industry leader. we got confused for but i went out and said that i was offended fox news, -- he said that he was a fan, but he said that he will -- does not make himself a spectacle. and i wrote back and i said thank you. but what else could

so lyndon johnson's running against barry goldwater. and as you may remember, johnson describes himself as the candidate of peace. gore. goldwater is a warmonger. nixon says, i'm not going to send american boys to go fight wars in asia and. he goes on to win the election. this is particularly important for vietnam. it convinces the north vietnamese leadership that now they have a president in office who said he's not going to fight here in vietnam. so at the same time, they're seeing the south vietnamese government in turmoil. so they decide to launch a decisive in the spring of 1965, moving entire north vietnamese army divisions into south vietnam and this offensive well for the north vietnamese such that by june of 1965 the american commander, general westmoreland, is telling the white house that if the u.s. doesn't put its own troops into, the ground war quickly, that south vietnam is going to fall. so president johnson, then has to look at all the strategic stakes and he is focused on the same issue, really, that had concerned eisen

and and barry goldwater does this as well to a certain degree. so i wonder, you know, how did they do that? well, so what did they say? yeah, well, yeah. so one of the things i argue is that, you know, buckley, is that totally a myth. but it's mostly, you know, no one person had the ability to to keep the gatekeeper, you know, the birchers were first. there are 60 to 100000 of them. a lot of them very wealthy. and buckley just as an example, he had a lot of ties to a lot of birch leaders and some of his readers were either in the society or they were in in the members, but they were supportive of it and so it was very hard to kind of disentangle. so buckley wrote a couple of editorials in the early sixties denouncing robert welch's conspiracy theories. right. welch had argued that eisenhower was a commie, and buckley said, you know, you know, that's too much, too far. and then later in five, especially as the birchers really kind of went more radical on the vietnam war, buckley did a bigger thing against him. he really kind of denounced him. but,

and and barry goldwater does this as well to a certain degree. so i wonder, you know, how did they do that? well, so what did they say? yeah, well, yeah. so one of the things i argue is that, you know, buckley, is that totally a myth. but it's mostly, you know, no one person had the ability to to keep the gatekeeper, you know, the birchers were first. there are 60 to 100000 of them. a lot of them very wealthy. and buckley just as an example, he had a lot of ties to a lot of birch leaders and some of his readers were either in the society or they were in in the members, but they were supportive of it and so it was very hard to kind of disentangle. so buckley wrote a couple of editorials in the early sixties denouncing robert welch's conspiracy theories. right. welch had argued that eisenhower was a commie, and buckley said, you know, you know, that's too much, too far. and then later in five, especially as the birchers really kind of went more radical on the vietnam war, buckley did a bigger thing against him. he really kind of denounced him. but,

and then as soon as 64 came and barry goldwater proposed the civil rights act of 1964 and strom thurmond switched parties, saying that the party of our fathers is dead and worships the foot of materialism and an all consuming power in washington. therefore, i'm going to become a republican republic and sprang up in the south out, nowhere out of dust. and now the south is the white. south is presumably republican or we forget that within four years after 1865, the republican of lincoln put the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments into the constitu ation, and then we put the 15th amendment to sleep for 100 years on. this is the subliminal power of race, in my view. it determines more than we like to think and our greatest challenges to discover it and ask questions about how it does. because race in our public discourse is almost entirely an accusation or a summary to get past it rather, an inquiry about how we move forward and how race influences our dearly held beliefs. it it affects whether we're called liberal or conservative, and in fact, on that score, there, there virtually are no liberal

voted to impeach president nixon, then the members of the senate leading republican senators was barry goldwater, howard baker and hugh scott went to see president nixon and said, this was a bipartisan vote. you need to resign. that is almost impossible to imagine today because of what has happened and what they have allowed to happen to themselves. i hope that we won't have accountability just for donald trump and if there are others named in the indictments along with him for their behavior, but we will also have accountability for political party that has thrown in with all of the lies and divisiveness and lack of any conscience about what was being done to the country. >> in terms of getting out of this and coming out of this crisis stronger for having confronted very dark prospects in terms of what this means, it does feel like the republican party as a whole is not ready to make that turn. i'm thinking about ron desantis as the guy who is running second to donald trump in the primary right now. he is promising that there shouldn't be an independent department of justice. >> he is promising

you know, in 1984, they did d the arizona act, which mo udall, bob stone, barry goldwater, john mccain, all the environmentalists, everybody came together and they called it a compromise. and they set aside certainnd f lands for wilderness and set aside some lanord, you know, fog off roading, you know, fore the public and for mininpug. d l and that was a good deal for everybody. and now they're just comin everybodg back to take everything we did a ck in 2009, we did a survey to find out exactly what kind of money was involved in the mines. 29 it was $29 billion of wealthn to be added to arizona and utah. >> no, that's you're not allowed to have that wealth. those billions of dollars have to go to russia and have to go to africa. you're not allowed to have it. that's american money that's supposed to go overseas. it's an unbelievable ploy thatys this president's pulling. and we're going to get to the bottom of it. busterling andare, thanks so muh >> thank you. >> oh, for a politician, his brand, his empathy jesse: , joe biden should know how to treat injured combat vets. >>should k it's

so he approached barry goldwater and knowing that he was considering running for president in 1964 he said look, we should do this together and push back on these people. and if we do so to gather i think we can have an impact on the party. so i will write the first editorial, the national review and then you write a letter to the editor of the national review supporting the editorial. he is worried that if he does this he won't win the nomination so he writes a very short letter to buckley which is nothing like what they agreed upon. so he decides he's not going to publish it at first and he goes to somebody else to see who has credibility in the movement. at that time not even an elected official. he'd given a speech and 64 on behalf of goldwater early on and reagan had become a very popular figure in the conservative movement because of the speech. he would be elected to two years later as governor of california but reagan stood up and wrote a long and passionate letter as a former democrat as to why he thought they were not somebody we should be embracing or empowering and it abso

you know, that is something, barry goldwater, right? that is something that we have contended with a lot over the last several generations. to the against the idea that voting is what should decide who is in power in america is something that is way more off the rails. and that is really where we are. >> although, the history of, you know, people trying to disenfranchise certain votes in this country extends back -- >> yes, but that is to win the majority of the votes that remain. if voting should not decide who is in power, then we are no longer a country who we thought we are -- that is what the trump movement is about. >> and that is even the republicans that we've all lauded. liz cheney had a very important role in the january 6th select committee working with chairman bennie thompson. she hasn't been out there attacking the republican election integrity laws. there are 48 states that have passed voter suppression laws based on the lie that she held up there and used as a cudgel against trump and her own party for many months, very

johnson was the overwhelming favorite when he denied entry to debate from his republican challenger barry goldwaterthe democratic incumbent went on to win in a landslide in 1960 during the first televised debate. richard nixon's appearance and 5:00 shadow ruined his candidacy against john f. kennedy. it was no wonder he later bypassed debates against hubert humphrey in 1968 and george mcgovern in 1972 when he won a second term as president. jimmy carter opted out of the first three debates against ronald reagan and his republican challenger. the democrat at the inclusion of a third-party candidate on the stage fearing he might siphon off votes with a strong performance. reagan winning the white house. historical context there. those who decided to debate or not to debate. former president trump deciding not to attend the first debate. saying he should be there. go ahead. caller: definitely. what he did. i'd like to find out what he's going to do if he gets elected and what he can do for the country. we've got to get rid of that criminal biden. we can take more of him. >> that celani there joining u

the particular tipping point was the 1964 presidential election when barry goldwater -- he was adamantlyinst the civil rights act of 1964 because he felt it was a federal intrusion to the affairs of private businesses that he felt the federal government shouldn't be telling private restaurants or hotels what their practice should be in terms of discriminating on the basis of race. that was a catastrophic and tragic mistake. bill buckley was on the wrong side of those debates as well. there were many people in the civil rights movement who were republicans because of that legacy. the one i often talk about is jackie robinson, the baseball player who broke the color line in major league baseball. he was a republican activist, he campaigned heavily for richard nixon in 1960 and for nelson rockefeller in the 64 election. he went after the 1960 four republican convention when goldwater defeated rockefeller who was in favor of the civil rights act. a lot of other african-american civil rights leaders did as well, that was tragic. there was a bit of a change in the posture of the republican and

the particular tipping point was the 1964 presidential election when barry goldwater -- he was adamantlyinst the civil rights act of 1964 because he felt it was a federal intrusion to the affairs of private businesses that he felt the federal government shouldn't be telling private restaurants or hotels what their practice should be in terms of discriminating on the basis of race. that was a catastrophic and tragic mistake. bill buckley was on the wrong side of those debates as well. there were many people in the civil rights movement who were republicans because of that legacy. the one i often talk about is jackie robinson, the baseball player who broke the color line in major league baseball. he was a republican activist, he campaigned heavily for richard nixon in 1960 and for nelson rockefeller in the 64 election. he went after the 1960 four republican convention when goldwater defeated rockefeller who was in favor of the civil rights act. a lot of other african-american civil rights leaders did as well, that was tragic. there was a bit of a change in the posture of the republican and

house, john rhodes, the republican leader of the senate, hue scott, and conservative stalwart barry goldwateras mounting around watergate, to resign from the presidency. nixon did that for the good of the country. it hurt nixon for sure, but he did it for the good of the country. and you saw republicans putting country above party. so it was a very different time in american politics. in my opinion, katty, much of this is around the cul of personality that is donald trump. the difference between today and almost half a censure are ago is, to my mind, the information landscape. conservatives are getting a very different stream of information from conservative news outlets, a different narrative and truth. >> mark, it is interesting that you point out that republicans could have power if they took it. if they banded together and confronted him, it could be a powerful moment for, frankly, the help of our country. but i'm interested in your perspective on the relationship between trump and nixon. it almost seemed to me that trump really admired nixon for breaking the law, maybe not for resigning,