george romney actually spoke out against barry goldwater, a public speech at the convention. he did. and mitt was there as a as a teenage associate delegate at that at the 1964 convention, goldwater had won the nomination. kind of shocking political establishment. this was not something that anyone believed could happen because his views were seen as so radical and outside of the mainstream. and george romney decided go to this convention to try to push against the goldwater movement right. he tried to get a couple planks added to the party in favor of civil rights and a resolution condemning extremism. both of them were voted down. and then when george romney's turn to speak came, he very refused to endorse goldwater and instead called out the lily white protestant extremism taking root in the gop. as you can imagine, not very popular sentiment in the convention that moment. what mitt from that is that a few nights later when barry goldwater rose, accept the nomination and give speech, he actually kind of called out george romney not by name, but he said extremism, defense of

barry goldwater, arizona. charles mac, mathias maryland and richard schweiker of pennsylvania. all very well known as well. yes, absolutely. john tower w a really important figure in this investigation, not only because he was vice chairman, of course, but also because he was placed on the committee by republican senate leader hugh scott and told that he should try to rein in some of the investigation, that he should be there to protect the national intelligence community. but john tower did work very cooperatively with church. over time, they became a surprisingly cooperative duo, even though they had decidedly different people. they came from different parts of the political spectrum and they worked really quite well together. john tower even later wrote in his memoir that he realized that over the course of the investigation that change needed to happen and that congress did need to exercise better oversight over this national intelligence apparatus. a couple of the other members there, i mean, barry goldwater being on the committee was important. he was largely protective o

to think about one example, ronald reagan running for governor in 66, beeri got -- barry goldwater, the64 nominee that lost in a huge landslide, still popular among conservatives. but reagan did not want goldwater campaigning with him, right? wanted him at arms length and was happy to kind of have a loose endorsement bump but didn't want to stump with him. he wanted to kind of define himself and project his own image and shed some of that more extremist association. so, vice president harris, very different. it's a balancing act. guest: -- host: a lame duck president now, what could it mean? guest: it could be liberating for him. he's not a lame-duck president -- he is now a lame-duck president, everybody knows that, but he doesn't have a majority in the house and is already limited with what he can do. his legacy as he sees it, of course, is harris winning in november. to the extent that he makes decisions, he will want to make decisions that he thinks is helpful to the country, of course, but also his legacy, and you cannot take politics out of it. it's also going to see liberating as

barry goldwater never had that kind of power persuasion, inspiration, optimism. and of course reagan was like almost all the presidents, if not all of them, incredibly ambitious. i mean, in no at all. he's already thinking about becoming president now step one, he's got to do something. so he immediately for governor and gets elected and is a very popular governor of california makes the cover of time magazine of people saying now this guy's for real. you may think he kind of a grade b movie actor in a death valley days, guy on tv, but he's for real as, a politician. he blows people away with. this speech. and so it was it was it came from his mother but there wasn't one day of his life that he ever seemed to be down, with the possible exception, when jane wyman left him and and that depressed him for a little. but then along came nancy and she she, of course, just fed him every single day about it. you're greatest guy in the whole world. and and he kind of liked that. so the moral of the story is have a good wife. okay, let's take some questions. thank you. look

barry goldwater never had that kind of power persuasion, inspiration, optimism. and of course reagan was like almost all the presidents, if not all of them, incredibly ambitious. i mean, in no at all. he's already thinking about becoming president now step one, he's got to do something. so he immediately for governor and gets elected and is a very popular governor of california makes the cover of time magazine of people saying now this guy's for real. you may think he kind of a grade b movie actor in a death valley days, guy on tv, but he's for real as, a politician. he blows people away with. this speech. and so it was it was it came from his mother but there wasn't one day of his life that he ever seemed to be down, with the possible exception, when jane wyman left him and and that depressed him for a little. but then along came nancy and she she, of course, just fed him every single day about it. you're greatest guy in the whole world. and and he kind of liked that. so the moral of the story is have a good wife. okay, let's take some questions. thank you. look

mentioned lyndon johnson, you probably remember how in '64, lyndon johnson was running against barry goldwaterresponsible for security and determines the course of foreign policy. it is the intelligence agencies, the cia, the pentagon, military contractors and the congressional armed services committee, the national security council, that actually play the most important role, this is not public opinion, not politics, they are the names, i often say that the only real task of the president is if this is a good president, is to keep your foot on the brake to stop the war. other countries, siru and others do this, so a good president knows how to say no to the security forces, kamalala haris does not have that experience, she is surrounded by all those who brought us into this fiasco over the past few years, one war after another. china will demonstrate its inability to honestly solve the problem related to peace in palestine, because in many ways the foreign policy controls the pro-israeli lobby, so most likely it will continue this course. all i can say is, of course, you never know how it wil

and barry goldwater wrote him a letter thanking him for that article. so, he always was a thinker who was at all levels in different ways, - not ideological. you and dick together were invited to havana for a conference commemorating the 40th anniversary of the cuban missile crisis with many of the major figures from the kennedy administration at the time, as well as soviet statesmen from the time and cuban leadership, including fidel castro. what do you remember about those few days in havana? - i think what was so special about it is that everybody realized that the people who were there from castro, who was 76, to the kennedy administration people who are mostly in their 70s, some in their 80s, mcnamara and schlessinger and sorensen and dick, and then the russians were there, as well, the russian generals and the russian diplomats who had been there, that this may be the last time they were all meeting. so it had a special aura to it, that this kind of reunion was an emotional thing. and it was so interesting to see that the cubans and the americans

different, but there's a parallel here to richard nixon after the watergate tapes came out where barry goldwater and other senators told nixon you don't have the votes to survive. ultimately nixon resigned. the difference is there is no vote on whether or not joe biden remains the democratic nominee for president. it's really up to him. but there is a problem democrats are having, which is, their fundraising has fallen through the floor. i know that sounds a little bit esoteric for some folks, but they're not going to be able to run the race if their funders are not giving them money. schumer went there and talked to him. hakeem jeffries went to talk to the president, gave the same message, according to our sources. he's hearing that he needs to step aside, but he is not yet accepting it. >> the president has been a prolific fundraiser. there's 200 million plus in the bank. what does it mean that his funding is drying up? >> it means that the donor class, the people who give big money to democrats -- by the way, it's not just for our campaign. it's also for super pacs supporting his campaign. do

there's not going to be a barry goldwater moment here where the democrats come to him and say joe you have to step down and step aside for the good of the party because in 1974 win berry goldwater did that, nixon had been impeached and he was delivering the message that the republicans were going to vote to remove him from office. he was giving him a choice, be removed or resign on your own. they have no such leverage. joe biden has made clear that he is staying on the ticket. is not moving so he's got the delegates picketed -- there's nothing anyone can do about it. they are going to start circling the wagons because he's decided that he's the nominee until something happens that changes that. >> we saw that relief from jerry. he said well of course i support him. so let me ask you philippe where you stand. how do you feel about it? >> i understand people who feel strongly about whether the president should step aside or not. i understand people who watch the debate and were unnerved. i'm one of those people. where you go from there about whether you think you should step aside and w

in virginia, senior person in the senate, willing to organize people in the mode of, you know, barry goldwater went to nixon and said it's time to go. and that is just part of it. but it's now very prominent. but the larger part of it, aishah, is that all those democratic congressman coming back next week. coming together. they're worried about biden's impact down ballot. and you can imagine that they are also anxious to go to the white house, to speak directly with biden, to try to persuade him that something is going on. and there's a third pillar to this mix, the donor class. you touched on it in the package. i thought it was terrific. what you are see something like the guy at netflix hastings. disney heiress. >> aishah: they are asking for embargoes to donate until the president steps aside. >> juan: threatening evening that some of this money would go to the down ballot candidates. that's a tremendous disadvantage. if you are anita dunn or the campaign manager, you are saying where are we going forward here? we don't have the ammunition. >> aishah: i want to add breaking news. nbc news i

i do not believe that lyndon johnson debated barry goldwater but 9 miners are very they're very minor thing. so will say i did a great debated against the democratic candidate at that time. well, you know, so we'll see. but it's it's really it's going to be interesting to see how they do that because come competition the vice president. you know, we i know for so long the vice president needs to i get out there and and not just get keep going doing we can't do trump directed much to him, but people are looking for people are hungry for a difference. because remember rate, it races been rather static right back and forth for almost a year she is with tension break it out and we to break it out is to talk about. fresh ideas, bring out some new ideas. i think the fact that biden will be still be present gives actually a little bit of room to run away from him and talk about with her vision why he continues to do the battle to he wants to do in the last 6 months of of his fascinating. michael, always a pleasure to chat with you and the way this is going, who knows what will be chatting ab

people have been comparing to the very famous moment in which barry goldwater and others went to the white house to tell richard nixon he had to resign. this is very different because as i said many times with respect to biden's age or whatever political challenge he faces, he has not done any wrong. there is no scandal here, but the reason people point to that analogy as this was people inside the party saying that this has to happen. this is not quite that, but this is as close to something like that as we have seen throughout this entire story. >> to that end, the new york times reported earlier this week that biden's kind of inner circle had close drinks and he was not hearing from outside. a very select group of advisors and his family. it is clear that some people are getting through that firewall as well. >> also those precise, same concerns, because you don't go to rehoboth beach to meet with the president of the united states holding with you polling data if you are confident that he is getting a realistic picture of the state of the race. one more thing i would say and this

went -- what he meant by that was, a campaign -- and he was going to run against conservative barry goldwater was going to be strenuous and intense, and that's the way we americans get the best presidents. but he said let's do it in a civilized way. arguments between us that are based on facts, not exaggerations. and obviously, a campaign without violence. if you can believe it, kate, this is 1963. kennedy, at that time, was talking to his probable opponent about possibly both of them writing on air force one and having replicas of the lincoln douglas debates between them in various cities. that's not going to happen in 2024, let's use this occasion to keep the temperature down. >> they say journalism is just the first draft of history. give us your crystal ball. how will this period be remembered? >> when they go through a traumatic event like this, there's no doubt this is going to change american history. what we do not know is how. and that's a case where historians 30 years later with information -- we don't have to make a judgment. it's like what harry truman said . any schoolboy histor

like it's going to take nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to really be the ones like hugh scott and barry goldwater and john rhodes did in 1974 to go down and say, there is no support for you, mr. president, i don't see that happening. this is not a dam breaking because there is one congressman from texas and all respect to congressman doggett, there was one congressman who called for bill clinton to resign in the end this decision would boil down to the first lady and the president know the first lady while she is his spouse, she is not his political advisor. she is now she is one of several valery, his sister margaret, and seeing the ambassador to european union donald and ted kaufman? yes, they will. they will discuss this kind of thing together and it's usually the way biden world works is there's a committee, a consensus by committee, and then they will go at him, but she would never be the one to say joe, i want you to end your aspirations. she doesn't. they've not done that for each other but throughout their 47 year marriage, she's supported his three campaigns for president. he supported h

in any case, look, this is not 1974 where barry goldwater is going to lead a delegation of senior senators and tap joe biden on the shoulder to step aside, at least not yet. i think that's we would really need to see a critical mass for that to happen. and frankly all of this just gets joe biden's backup. i mean, the biden and his family have always felt that he's been underestimated time after time after time. this kind of thing thing just makes them want to prove what's more that joe biden is a winner and that he'll prove them wrong look, i am a subscriber to the notion of underestimate me. >> it'll be fun. but look, i'm not trying to the present united states and so you've got people who are looking at this idea. and i do wonder whether we'll be motivating or demoralizing in the end. and the voters will make that call. but we're also hearing from the east wing tonight. the firstly is communication director telling cnn that the president has plenty of political and policy advisors. that's never been jill's role. do you think that she would be sitting on the sideline i had time, i guess i

everything is in the context of who is going to be barry goldwater and walk up to the white house and tell joe biden's time to go, like he actually put it in human terms and i don't know what joe biden would say if michael bennett had that conversation with him in his living room but no one's doing that. there's a lot of you gotta, you gotta, i gotta. and by the way they all choked in the last 24 hours. so there's a lot of, you know, a lot of backpedaling, lot of this unusual you've never see that on capitol hill? being here. of course, we have only days left to announce more. donald trump says he's going to say who is picked as his running mate. tonight, a former challenger turn top contender was at his rally what are the deciding factors and trump's decision? we're going to speak to his former national security adviser, john bolton about that next doug lima, someone needs to customize and save hundreds and car insurance with liberty mutual. >> let's fly chief i thought you were right behind me. >> only pay for what you need to keep safe frames app makes it ridiculously easy to frame

and that would be sort of a private intervention such as we saw with barry goldwater and richard nixon, or could be something more in the form of a public statement. but for now, what we're hearing is that it's going to be sort of something in the form of a listening mode. in other words, what we're just seeing is the, the party leaders really just listening to their party members kind to kind of keep things calm and contain for now what we know is that there is a luncheon that takes place every week on tuesdays, the party license the board to listen to their members, try and sort of the see where things stand and then decide from there where to take it. when i say, see where to take it, how much of a window of time do democrats have to see where to take this and how to resolve the issue of vitamins candidacy to the bottom line is the clock is ticking. everybody knows that there's very little time. so what we're hearing in washington is that most have decided, at least from the democratic side, the friday is the so called sauce deadline to make a decision for president 5 and to really

there's not going to be a delegation led by barry goldwater and a bencher senators who tapped him on the shoulder and say, joe, it's time to go. the only thing that would achieve that would be maybe an intervention led by jill and hunter biden and vowed assistance they might be the last to be probably the last to do that. i think this last couple of days isaac dovere, she spoke with a dozen or two dozen democratic officials, political operatives, donors tied to the biden campaign they were afraid not just about keeping biden now the ticket, but also what the alternatives could be. but one thing they were also incensed by as this email from the biden campaign that called people who are worried about this quote, bed, the bed wedding brigade that really upset some of these officials i wonder if you get the sense from anything that you've seen that inside of biden's inner circle, his family circle, especially they grasp how widespread the concern is about what the american people saw last week i've heard the bed winning were marked from other democratic consultants, four and strategists

calling the people who received the calls who weren't necessarily in favor of vra but were so even barry goldwater got a call her and wow wow but she was brilliant on her point so that's a long answer to us. no is is a great need of great script. i want to clarify who she was calling. yes. i remember once congress has the amendment, it has to go the states for ratification. so had to call members of state legislatures so those phone calls were being made into. the states that had not voted for the nra. so like said, a lot of them were opposed. it was a little like what had to happen with the 19th amendment. you have to get all those states behind it. so she's calling into state legislatures to get the legislators to pass it. but if any. but just case people don't understand. i check this first also to make sure that because i knew we'd get a lot of people saying she she's not allowed to call. right. but this was states a it was a national amendment. so, yes, i just want to add something actually, this is postscript to, the 60 minutes interview. and it really shows you such a nice side of mrs. ford

to think about one example, ronald reagan running for governor in 66, beeri got -- barry goldwater, the nominee that lost in a huge landslide, still popular among conservatives. but reagan did not want goldwater campaigning with him, right? wanted him at arms length and was happy to kind of have a loose endorsement bump but didn't want to stump with him. he wanted to kind of define himself and project his own image and shed some of that more extremist association. so, vice president harris, very different. it's a balancing act. guest: -- host: a lame duck president now, what could it mean? guest: it could be liberating for him. he's not a lame-duck president -- he is now a lame-duck president, everybody knows that, but he doesn't have a majority in the house and is already limited with what he can do. his legacy as he sees it, of course, is harris winning in november. to the extent that he makes decisions, he will want to make decisions that he thinks is helpful to the country, of course, but also his legacy, and you cannot take politics out of it. it's also going to see liberating as w

and that was true all the way up until 1964, when their nominee barry goldwater said he would opposeonal. so ever since then, 1968, richard nixon campaigned on law and order. would say you can't walk through the streets of washington without getting hurt. and then, that gets up to donald trump in 2017, that inaugural american carnage, if you look at donald trump's political career, a lot of it has been an effort to get some popularity for himself and his party by saying, we're the law and order party, i'm the law and order leader. >> we also have some new leaked audio of donald trump that i want to play. some might be hearing it for the first time. michael, as you know, something that historians and journalists have in common, we love primary sources. it's fine to have someone tell you what they remember, what happened in the we love primary sources. it's fine to have someone tell you what they remember and sometimes it is a self-serving account. it is another to get a primary source and i want to be clear before we play this, there have been a flurry of phone calls with donald trump

trump's manifesto calls for the most conservative agenda america has ever seen, one that makes 1964 barry goldwaterk like a moderate. it lays the groundwork for a nationwide abortion ban, and called for removes mifepristone from the market. it defunds the department of education and calls for reversing democrats' clean energy agenda, while empowering the biggest oil and gas polluters. is the trump manifesto calls for silencing and attacking all of donald trump's political enemies. the hard right is done speaking in euphemisms. they're saying it straight to our faces -- if you disagree with donald trump, watch your back. to see this happen in america is bone chilling. maga's political threats are reminiscent of the autocratic fervor in europe in the 20th century. for the first time, we're wondering could it ever happen in america? hope not. all keeps goings -- keeps going. it defunds federal law enforcement and replacing thousands of federal personnel with individuals loyal, above all, to donald trump, and finally, of course, the trump manifesto calls for more tax cuts for the very wealthy, more tax