there was a desire on the part of barry gordie to take motown out of the fray. but couldn't.nd marvin gaye were the two central figures who kind of moved it into the area of politics. >> but anthony, all these people were talking about, they are still, you know, pertinent, listened to. rock stars today. in 2014. and we're talking about the '60s. and it's interesting to sort of juxtapose some of the musicians popping today versus these guys from the '60s, the longevity is incredible. why is it, do you think? >> well, it's really interesting, because nobody back then ever would have predicted that. there was a sense -- >> why not? >> well, because popular music was disposable. that was the very nature of it. you know, and the idea that you -- we would be sitting here talking about these people as artists, let alone 50 years later, would have been ludicr s ludicrous. it was unthinkable. but the culture changed. and the level of ambition on the part of those artists also changed. and that's part of it. because, you know, there is a real established history now. so people go back