mike wallace and barry landrieu was the producer. and they went weeks and months going down one afternoon about what the story would be in at the end of the day, barry landrieu, the producer, realized that this guy who it got was actually a fraud and was perpetrating a major fraud on the u.s. government and on "60 minutes" and the news media and barry turned the tables and in the end, you know, his devotion was to the facts, to the truth. and so, so that -- i guess the point is, you know, you can like somebody, you can identify with somebody, but at the end of the day, it's got to check out and we check it out ruthlessly. our devotion to the truth is the matter. so, that's my elaboration. >> i think you summed it up perfectly. i remember one little incident of a guide with stories about and buy a waste since there was something he hadn't told her they couldn't get it from anyone. finally i found the flaw in his background and i put it out there and i remember he said how could she do that? that's what we are. we're not friends at the