joined by four-star general and decorated impact general barry mccaffrey. it's easy to forget this is a relatively small community. besides the deep personal loss, will this affect the u.s. war tempo? >> probably not, lester. it reminds all of our viewers we've had 15,000 killed and wounded in afghanistan. it's a big operation. the casualties increased each year, and the special operations community has carried a tremendous burden of that combat operation. a lot of these rangers, sergeants, delta s.e.a.l.s, 160th aviation on their fourth, sixth combat tours. it's a tremendous struggle to keep this up. i think there'll continue. >> we continue the drawdown. will rangers and delta force be among the last to leave? >> i would think so. the absolutely last out, trainers trying to develop the afghan army and police right up to the very end, but clearly what we're facing is a political challenge here in the united states in which increasingly there is little support for this war. maybe two-thirds of the american people, a $10 billion a month operation. we've got

joining me from washington to discuss the situation in libya is general barry mccaffrey. sir, nice to see you. from your estimation, how can you explain how we're seeing the evolvement of the rebel forces in libya? >> a lot of allegations floating around, thomas. one that there are some 600 fighters that have been infiltrated into tripoli itself. they're now rising up. there was huge fighting on saturday night and in another report, the rebels are stating that they have a 1,000-person brigade that will enters tripoli and try to take over the security of the capital and it remains to be seen. what we will expect, though is with 2 million people in tripoli and many of them gadhafi supporters that there will be chaos when the regime final lly falls and it looks inevitable that they're starting to come apart with senior defections and no longer effectively resisting on the outskirts of tripoli. >> what do you think this means? do you think this means that gadhafi forces are weaker or the rebels are stronger? >> there's a momentum of the psychology of these kinds of things. i

and it's been somewhat incoherent at best. >> general barry mccaffrey, sir, always good to see you. thanks for your time this morning. >> good to be with you, thomas. >>> white house officials say even though the president is vacationing in martha's vineyard, he is tapped into the developments taking place in libya. nbc's kristen welker is traveling with the president, joining us now from martha's vineyard. kristen, obviously, as the president travels, the white house travels with him. >> reporter: absolutely. hi there, thomas. well, a white house official tells us that president obama was indeed briefed on the situation in libya earlier today, that the united states is in close contact with its allies, continues to believe that gadhafi is in his final days there in libya. in the meantime, the white house also continues to insist that this is a working vacation for the president. the only sign of the president on martha's vineyard saturday, his motorcade leaving a private social event in oak bluffs. a white house official says earlier, mr. obama was briefed on the unfolding situatio

and according to general barry mccaffrey, it was one whereby we, quote, murdered dozens of people in our custody. and then he was the driving force behind a war of aggression, an attack on iraq, that ended the lives of at least 100,000 innocent human beings, and far more. and what is so troublesome is exactly what you just said, which is we decided now to treat those like simple policy disputes, like mistakes that he made, rather than what they are, which is among the most serious and egregious crimes committed over the last decade, in this generation. there's a statute in place that says if you eavesdrop on americans without warrants, you go to prison for five years, for each offense. we have a treaty that requires that we will prosecute all people who order torture. general tagooba, who was tasked with investigating this, says that there's no doubt that high bush officials committed war crimes. the only question is whether they will be held to account. in the nurm nuremberg trials, it was said that the worst side is not genocide or bombing hospitals or anything else, it's a war of

joining me is barry mccaffrey, an msnbc military analyst. nice to see you this morning.n to all of us the impact this type of news has on the armed forces of this country. >> well, it's a huge impact. these special operations troops, particularly the so-called army, navy, air force in this elite counterterrorism unit, that level of loss in one blow is a huge impact. now, it won't affect in any significant way our ability to fight going forward. but it clearly was a moral blow in that tight-knit community. >> for all of us at home this is such a sad reminder for so many of us who are had family and friends who have fought and some we've lost over the years in the war on terrorism. 15 helicopters have crashed or experienced forced landings in afghanistan this year, only two involved enemy fire. when we talk about this latest incident, does it indicate we could see more nato aircraft attacks or is this just a case of, they got lucky? >> we've got to remind ourselves, thomas, there are 15,000 u.s. killed and wounded in afghanistan to date in the war. so, you know, there's a

i was talking to barry mccaffrey about this last night, about this mission, and with the diminished forcesuld have been sent into that territory with just one helicopter and no cover and a lot of the people in the military are saying we should not have been there. >> the nakt we're still debating whether or not this mission can be executed is frightening. >> it is. >> members of the super committee, some of them are emerging. we'll get to that in just a moment. >>> first the big picture. markets around the world are reacting after a tumultuous trading session on wall street yesterday. anticipation of news from the federal reserve causing stocks to rise, fall and rise again. at the close, the dow surged 429 points or nearly 4%. the s&p 500 rallied 53 points for a gain of 4.7%. those were the biggest one-day point and percentage gains for the two indices since march 2009. the nasdaq added 124 points or 5%. stocks declined shortly after the fed announcement as investors were disappointed that no new policy initiatives were unveiled. but markets rebounded in the final hour on news that central