with us to talk about this, general barry mccaffrey, a decorated combat veteran of vietnam, of iraq, lot of places. in fact, you and i, general mccaffrey, have talked for years, but i was looking up all the places you've been in the world, all the places that our forces were because of unstable governments and because of governments that didn't accept the voice of the people. and i worry today that we have introduced this into our lexicon here in the united states for the first time in our democratic history, the idea that we will delegitimize our own election and that the president will not be willing to move off. >> well, we've seen it before in 1860 with jefferson davis. but literally in modern times, you're entirely correct. there's no president of the united states who have dared to call into question the underlying principles of democracy, free and fair election. so it's a very dangerous situation. and by the way, when you're trying to understand what someone will do in the future, you should take into account their words. what are they saying, and what are they writing? so i t

but we begin with retired four-star general and msnbc military analyst barry mccaffrey. also tom nichols, writer for "the atlantic" and a professor at the u.s. naval war college. we should note he joins us here as a -- in his personal capacity, and peter baker, correspondent for "the new york times" and an msnbc political analyst. barry mccaffrey, to you first, my friend. >> well, i think it's heartbreaking. it's plausible. it matches the other kinds of statements he's made from making fun of gold star families to deriding senator mccain, an authentic american hero. it's combined with a level of ignorance also of american history and our country that is astonishing. he allegedly asked general kelly or people in paris, why did the u.s. and world war ii come in on the side of the allies? he allegedly asked kelly at pearl harbor, tell me what happened here. i think the bottom line is 2.1 million men and women, active guard and reserve in our armed forces, they suffered 60,000 killed and wounded in the war on terror. he has no respect for somebody who serves out of patriotis

john kelly and others, who previously served under this president. >> peter, with us also are barry mccaffrey and still bill cohen, former defense secretary. general mccaffrey, one thing we do know is jeffrey goldberg has covered the military and national security and diplomacy for decades and is very well sourced in that field. so that is why, as you pointed out, his story resonates to be very accurate and has been confirmed by the associated press and by "the washington post." >> it's very plausible to me, exactly what he said. we saw him stand up in front of several thousand people and disparage and make fun of a gold star family. we've seen him call for the torture of u.s. detainees. we've seen him pull apart our alliances, nato. by the way, if he's re-elected, i'm sure we'll be out of the nato to the detriment of u.s. national security. i think in this case, what's so egregious, and you do see a change in the poll numbers certainly inside the armed forces, of him not understanding the nature of service. we have 2.1 million men and women in uniform, all of them volunteered, not for a payc

governor garlin gilchrist, former obama white house health policy adviser, zeke emanuel, and barry mccaffrey. we want to have a conversation under the umbrella of leadership during a time of crisis, and starting first on the coronavirus and the president's words, zeke, that he didn't want to incite panic. that's why he wasn't honest with the american public, that's why he lied to the american public about it. what's your reaction? >> horrible. you need leadership. and you need the president to exert leadership and part of that leadership is coming clean with the public about what to expect and what the country needs them to do to respond. instead, the president has mocked people who have responded by social distancing, wearing masks, it's just the wrong response. think of any great leader in our country. they acknowledge the problem, and they tell you what they need you to do and what they are going to do for you to resolve the problem. that's what franklin roosevelt would have done, that's what abraham lincoln did. that is what winston churchill did. downplaying an event and putting your he

i was walking out of the office, that listening to an interview of former general barry mccaffrey and bill cohen, former secretary of defense. before i begin, i want to speak a little bit to what they talked about and the revelations about president trump's disregard for our military and our veterans. quite frankly, if what is written in the atlantic is true, it's disgusting. it affirms what most of us believe to be true, that donald trump is not fit to do the job of president, to be the commander-in-chief. the president reportedly said, and i emphasize reportedly, said that those who sign up to serve, instead of doing something more lucrative, are suckers. let me be real clear. when my son was an assistant u.s. attorney and he volunteered to go to kosovo, when the war is going on as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker. when my son volunteered and joined the united states military as the attorney general and went to iraq for a year, won the bronze star and other commendations, he wasn't a sucker. the service men and women he served with, particularly those who did not come home, were not l

sort of mesmerized walking out of the office that -- listening to an interview of former general barry mccaffrey and bill cohen. former secretary of defense. and before i begin i want to speak a little bit to what they talked about. and the revelations about president trump's disregard for our military and our veterans. i quite frankly, if what is written in "the atlantic" is true it is disgusting. it affirms what most of us believe to be true. donald trump is not fit to be the job of president to be the commander in chief. president reportedly said and i emphasize reportedly said that those who sign up to serve instead of doing something more lucrative are suckers. let me be real clear. when my son was an assistant u.s. attorney and volunteered to go to kosovo while the war was going on as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker. when my son volunteered and joined the united states military as the attorney general, and went to iraq for a year, won the bronze star and other commendations he wasn't a sucker. the service men and women he served with, particularly those did not come home, were not losers. i

. >> i was walking out from the office, listening to an interview of former general barry mccaffrey andll cohen, former secretary of defense. before i begin, i want to speak a little bit to what they talked about, and the revelations about president trump's disregard for our military and our veterans. quite frankly, if what was written in "the atlantic" is true, it's disgusting and it affirms what most of us believe to be true. that donald trump is not fit to be in the job of president, to be the commander in chief. the president reportedly said, i emphasize reportedly said, that those who sign up to serve, instead of doing something more lucrative, are suckers. let me be real clear. when my son was assistant u.s. attorney and volunteered to go to kosovo while the war was going on, as a civilian, he wasn't a sucker. when my son volunteered and joined the united states military as an attorney general, and went to iraq for a year, won the bronze star and other commendations, he wasn't a sucker. the servicemen and women he served with, particularly those who did not come home, were not los

and retired four-star general and msnbc military analyst barry mccaffrey is here. i wish over the last four years all the people who had likened donald trump's america to a banana public could take it back so they could say it now. this does seem like the kind of conduct in which america would send election watchers and america would seek to spread democratic goals and practices if it were a third world country struggling as we are right now. what do you think? >> we have never seen anything like this, literally, since 1860 and the start of the civil war. i don't believe we're going to end up in trouble at all. i believe our institutions, the congress, the supreme court, federal law enforcement, the media are all going to do their job. so i don't believe we're going to end up in a crisis. if we do, the one thing i can assure you is the u.s. armed forces will not be part of the dispute resolution. so i do think that we are possibly going to end up with some bizarre situation, courtesy of the electoral college where we end up with nancy pelosi or chuck schumer or sen