i am sure you have read the articles by various members of the barzani family. take the issue of kurdish ambitions, both in 1918, but really more right now in 2017 as kind of a test case, what do you think about that? should the kurds have their own self-determined homeland? is that too dangerous for the region? what is your answer? emma: the region, the middle east, has always been multiethnic, multicultural, multilingual. it has never been anything other than that. the kurds, at versailles, believe that they were promised a homeland, and that was never implemented. so, they feel a grievance. but almost for 100 years, the kurds have been bedeviled by not having agreements on where their border should be or who their leader should be be. there are different kurdish movements. the kurds that you were talking about are the kurds of northern iraq. the kurds of northern iraq, the greatest national -- kurdish national movement, you could say, is in opposition of turkish nationalism. the kurdish nationalist movement has grown in strength, particularly after the imposi

barzani. the wish, the dream of every kurd since he was born. >> u.s. officials say kurdish independence is probably a matter of when, not if. and that open conflict with baghdad could follow. the kurds have heard all the warnings and yet they are determined to go ahead with the vote on independence. >> we don't live on an island. we live with our neighborhood, with geography, history. we, therefore, are careful really how to present this. >> if you get a new state, across the world, the map is going to change. are you willing to accept the consequences of that? >> definitely there will be a change. on the whole middle east is changing. >> so the map of the middle east is being redrawn? >> of course. look at syria. we want to have our right of self-determination to have our own state peacefully. >> the kurds' drive for independence puts the u.s. in a difficult position. the american military has a strong alliance with the kurds. but washington officially supports iraqi unity. at some stage, th

that will give more legitimacy to barzani. the turks cannot say that they want an independent kurdish in iraq. >> rose: are they less resistant. >> i think they are in part because they have a state under barzani who is someone the turks have been able to do business with, they have a lot of investments there, including energy investments. they were some of the first. and it means, you know, you have satisfied a level of kurdish independence without doing anything in syria where the turks are fighting organizations they consider to be terrorists, as well as kurdish separatism inside turkey. the problem is that erdogan can never say any of this publicly because of his challenges with the kurds in southeast anatolia. >> rose: groups he considers revolutionary terrorists. >> an he considers mountain turks, which is also a problem. so you have that issue, and then you have the iran issue who also are going to have big problems with the idea of kurdish independence in iraq, that the iranians have more influence over. but over time

we were there within two hours of president barzani calling us to go to their assistance.ho are talking about a shia crescent should tell me where in that crescent iraqi kurdistan falls. these are just fear mongering scenarios, narratives that are created -- presented, elaborated, articulated in order to create fear. this is not what we are after. we have called for a political solution in syria, where ,verybody, shia, sunni, alwaite jews, christians, can participate in government. this is what we want. charlie: what do you think about president bashar al-assad what is going on in syria. javad zarif: it is not my business to think about that. it is the business of the people of syria. we should provide them with a way for them to sit -- to think about this for themselves. charlie: not your business? for you to say that, -- no matter what he does -- -- >> i think what has happened in syria has been a consequence of people outside syria imposing redlines that this gentlemen, or another gentleman, or lady, should or should not be in the government. charlie: the issue is the u

massoud barzani was speakingng with reuters. >> i don't think anybody caca stand agaiainst the bigig wave f people of kurdistan when they decide their destiny. maybe there will be some attempt to foil it. we will try our best not to let that happen. the september 26 plebiscite amy:the september 26 plebiscite could increase tensions in turkey, syria, and i iran, countries with sizable kurdish populations who fear an indedependent t kurdish state. meanwhile, in mosul, iraq, u.s.-backed kurdish and iraqi forces cornered the last of the city's isis fighters in a tiny stretch h of the c city on thehs of the tigris river. an iraqi commandnder sd d about 10,000 civililians remainedd trapped in the battle zone. back in the united states, the christstian craft chaiain store hobby lobby has agreed to pay a $3 million fine and return thousands of artifacts looted from iraq. federaral prosecutors say hobby lobby spent over in 2010 to $1.5 million purchase more than iraqi artifacts from a dealer 5000 based in the united arab emirates. the sales violated a ban on the sale of iraqi cultural artifac