they're under a regulatory pressure with basul 2 and basul 3 biting.a result, europe needs to institutionalize. >> what do you mean by that, institutionalize? >> the majority of bank loans in europe are held by banks, about 66 ers. in the u.s., for example, it's quite the reverse. 75% of loans are held by institutional investors. >> and that's because they buy them from the banks. >> that's exactly right. the banks are in the business of underwriting the loans and selling down. >> people said that was responsible for some of the credit crisis, the banks, instead of having that old relationship, they package it up and sell it off. >> i think in europe, actually, it was the reverse. what created the problem is the banks were holding massive amounts of leverage loan exposure on balance sheet as opposed to selling it down and distributing it more broadly to the market. so for our funds, for example, we're 100% equity in terms of the way we're capitalized. >> no debt. >> no debt. we can take a lot of risk in the fund structures and those sorts of institutio

dividend program for 2013, keeping the dividend payment at euro 60 cents per share and targeting an 8% basul physically loaded capital ratio for 2013. shares there are down about 1%. that's slightly worse than spain's market generally. moving on to italy now, the president says he will today announce his next plan to try to form a government, following last month's inconclusive elections. the president has held two days of talk wes party leaders to try and reach a compromise. pierre bersani was the last to meet with the president and is he's insisting he'll be expected to form the next government since his party has the lower house, but ohm if his party has full control. >> translator: this is our intention, being available to help and find a solution, but not the whatever solution. a government that is not able to make a real change knot the solution. >> antonio garcia pascual is with us from barclay's. is it going to be a better sanny coalition here? >> well, i think right now, bertano is going to play an important role. in our view, it will buy time to form a grand coalition. i don't thin

with the changes to all the rules on capital, basul and so forth, you have to be judicious about your expansion. we were trying to become an emerging markets bank. two or three years ago, we contemplated on being an african bank. so so tease a producible bank on the continent. >> if what you're saying is regulation, why do you think the bank is any better with a change in management now? >> the team that has put the strategy together is the same team. the people who are taking over have been following my team for about ten years each. so this is just in the progression of time as opposed to a dramatic change as a result of any particular event. the bang is fairly well positioned. >> i'm curious, too, seeing this stake that the icb in china has had in your company, a lot of people looking at the role that china has played in terms of deploying capital across africa. who is how has that relationship, in your opinion, is it indicative of what you're seeing more broadly across africa, these partnerships with china, perhaps a move towards more -- as opposed to trade and the investment flow