baucus discusses the plan live next hour. right now we're going in depth with a team of knowledgeable correspondents and analysts to bring you the information you need about the baucus plan. brianna keilar on capitol hill. this plan has been out there for almost two hours now. any reaction on the hill? >> reporter: we have reaction from senator mitch mcconnell, the top republican in the senate. he basically blasted this proposal saying that the cuts in it for medicare are basically unacceptable. of course, this has been an issue that a lot of republicans have had and we've heard from some sources, democratic sources, who say that essentially seniors have nothing to worry about because that's really the concern here and it's not really a fear that should be realized. we're trying to get details on exactly how they back that up. that said, here's broad strokes about senator baucus' very detailed plan. $856 billion is the overall price tag. you probably recall we talked about trillion dollars for the bill we've seen in congress.

baw baucus has tried to do it. he has two choices -- huge amounts of taxes on huge subsidies on people who have to buy insurance now, which would make it extremely revenue non-niewtd tral. it would cause a huge deficit, or you do what he did, which is individual mandates, so people in the middle class, millions of them, are going to have to purchase insurance, which will cost up to 13% of their income, which is like doubling their rent, so the burden is either on the government that will be subsidizing it or if the subsidies are kept low to keep it revenue neutral as mr. baucus is doing, the burden will fall on people in the middle class, so one way or the other, there is going to be a huge hit, either on the middle class or on the deficit. baucus has made all of that cheer, open and obvious. he has a huge hit on the middle class, and a huge burden in taxes, and that's why it is going to be going left and right and i don't see how it survives. bret: does this administration sign on to this bill? >> i don't think th

so who knows what baucus will do.impossible to predict and people have gone broke trying to predict max baucus. in the case of barack obama, he wants something he can call historic and he will call virtually anything he gets that. just look at the way he's handled this whole process. he's let congress do the whole thing. he's drawn no lines in the sand. he's gone off and done a million other things. he's letting congress chew itself up and spit itself out in this process. if he can get something where he can say that tens of millions of more americans are covered, even at taxpayer expense, and if he can say we put some kind of federal regulation on the health insurance industry, he will call that historic, even though the health insurance industry and big pharma and all of the other parts of the medical and health care industry have really come up really well in this process getting taxpayer money to pay for new customers for them. >> the white house has been signaling that it will not fight for the public option. the

because the baucus bill is as mainstream as you're going to get, the baucus version. on this or do they stay out with the concern that if they are part of it, they give obama a win on health care, which i don't know if they want to do. >> what about that, trent, because i asked the congressman, are you for the health insurance reforms, for example, or not? the baucus bill, if you ask progressives, they think it's a horror show. they think it's a total giveaway to industry. this is the most republican bill you could possibly get out of democrats. so, why would republicans not support it some. >> i don't think it's the most republican bill by a longshot. it doesn't have true liability medical reform, true competition. it includes severe medicare contractions. you have florida democrat bill nelson talking about the fact that he needs to protect some of the medicare cuts that are in the baucus bill. i think peter's right, that this is about the democratic caucus. the president is clearly talking to his base there. they realize that republicans don't have the votes to kill

i'm more worried about the mind of baucus. sell the whole american people down the drain to try to get olympia snowe's vote. michael is making a misleading argument in saying there's no much in this bill or proposal that we can agree on because there is no guarantee for everybody's health care under this bill. there is no guarantee that people will be able to afford the insurance that they're going to be forced to buy. this is a deep, deep problem people are facing. let's just talk about that no pre-existing conditions. great. you can't be denied coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition. you can go broke paying for it unless we have a public option. >> and, michael, i want to bring this up. a fair comparison here. if this were the bush administration or the republican sound machine with the 60 votes, 59 votes, the white house, the house and the senate, would they be playing this nice? >> i don't know. look, i think both sides have played pretty tough here. the problem right now, and this is why president obama is goin

the senate finance committee chaired by max baucus, the same max baucus who back in november wrote his. but instead of proceeding like all of the other committees had, like all of the other committees that health care reform had zipped through, senator max baucus decided to do things differently. in his committee, he decided to take republicans from the minority of the committee and put them into a small bipartisan group of six. to see if those six could get republicans to vote for the bill instead of it just being voted for by democrats. and that's where everything came to a halt. instead of passing the bill before the august recess, which would have been probably possible if the finance committee had just done with all of the other committees did, senator baucus instead starting hundreds of hours of bipartisan negotiations. while republicans and anti-reform forces luxuryuated in the time they were granted to crusade against reform. he negotiated the way the public option and made the bill anti-immigrant and made it anti-abortion and in the end, what did he get? >> no republican has o

ceci, what did the baucus plan include after all this buildup and what didn't it in? well, something called an individual mandate, a requirement that every american carry insurance, with some tax credits for small businesses that might have trouble carrying it. all the items the president has been talking about for a long time are in there. we know it would cover about 30 million more americans, out of about 4 million uninsured so that's a big increase in coverage and there would be real changes in the ways doctors and hospitals behave. not in the bill is that public option we've heard about. that's not too surprising. maybe more surprising is that senator baucus did not put in any kind of requirement on employers in this country. that's a big difference and perhaps a little bit of a surprise. >> -- gwen: those two things are the big difference between what senator baucus is putting out and what the president said last week and has a lot to could -- do with the price tag being a lot less? >> yes. absolutely right. and senator balk u.s.a. -- baucus was determined to co

we are waiting for max baucus to bring it to us. of people in their state to do not have health care right now. >> that is because they will be in the medicaid rolls. it is a legitimate argument, something that mass baucus has tried to deal with by giving credits to the state government. states are going to have to assume some of the cost. jon: if the states are going to have to assume the cost, is that unfair? >> it takes real talent to get everyone in america in revolt over a policy. liberals are in revolt over the public option. conservatives are in revolt over the whole thing. blue dogs are revolting over the cost. now cash strapped states are seeing themselves in recession. in minnesota, the unemployment rate is 13%. they cannot take on this additional cost which raises the additional question of what is the big rush? if this does not take effect until 2013, why do we have to have this done in the worst -- in the middle of the worst recession with the highest unemployment rate since 1983? >> everybody is not opposed to this bil

brianna said senator max baucus who is critical to that gang of six, he talked to max baucus yesterday and he'll be on the phone again with him today. he's still open to ideas. he's trying to show the american people he's got specific ideas but he also still wants to try to see if they can work this out amongst them. i asked about a timetable. robert gibbs said until the end of the year he's hoping for some kind of health care reform legislation. he's not writing his own legislation. i asked gibbs about that. he said i won't send up 1400 pages to the congress. we want them to try to work this out and take the best ideas from the president as well as congress. >> that's terrific. we'll get another opportunity to talk later this hour or next hour. brianna keilar and suzanne malveaux. appreciate it. thank you. we invite you to join the conversation as well on our blog. what do you want to hear from the president tonight when he goes before a joint session of congress to talk about his health plan? once again. here's the address. cnn.com/tony. and of course we'll bring you the president's

the interesting thing about the baucus bill, you have many senators who are fighting the baucus billr a very good reason. watch out for health care, watch out for that, kennedy did a very wonderful thing, he tried to do with portability. whatever happened to it? it was impossible because it cost too much. when it happened we thought this was a major break through from heact reform. -- health care reform. it cost too much for the middle class to even take advantage of but that could happen to this bill unless we grab hold of it and push baucus back. >> no one likes the baucus bill, it was one of the worst unveiling of a bill -- >> bonnie: because nobody likes it it goes down the middle road it may end up succeeding. >> i find that to be highly unlikely given how charged the environment is on this. everyone is looking at every nook and cranny of this bill. the baucus bill has mandates and fines if you don't follow every section of it. preexisting, portability we gree agree on. but -- >> where you don't agree -- >> there's going to be a house bill that has a strong public option in it.

max baucus -- i'm a democrat -- max baucus is a bit of a turned off. he has not kept it simple. it does seem like he is representing the insurance companies. going to charge people $3,000 for not having insurance. i have two points. he is not keeping it simple. someone from c-span revenues article quoting ex-senator mcgovern, saying we should open of medicare. last night i saw special on pbs with an american doctor who said the same thing. the doctor last night said opening medicare to the uninsured -- and they say many of the uninsured are eligible for medicaid, and if the woman who called in previously is correct that it is difficult to get into medicaid -- then if that is true, it should be made easier. what about a flat 5% tax coming off your income tax to buy into medicare if you earn $50,000 or less? if you earn $100,000 or less may be 7.5% tax. maybe with a cap of 10%. that is my first idea. my second idea -- and i will be quick. liability insurance to business. could the insurance companies' form together to deny liability coverage to businesses for claims that arise out

in the end, baucus wrote this thing on his own. he explained it this way. >> we have done everything imaginable to get the most generous, most affordable coverage. there are honest and principled differences. this package may not represent all of our first choices. at the end of the day, we all share very common purpose. that is to make the lives of americans better tomorrow than there are today. shepard: presidensenator max baucus said he is still hoping for republican support. some democrats say they have some problems with the plan. the $856 billion proposal requires individuals to get insurance coverage. the government-run insurance option has been scrapped completely. the plan blocks coverage for illegal immigrants and puts punishment's stuff in. no federal funding for abortion. it calls for some medical malpractice lawsuit reform. wyoming republican senator john barrasso is joining us. senator, great to see you. senator max baucus believes that there will be some republican support. is that possible? >> anything is possible,

you've been negotiating with republicans, to support this baucus plan. >> well, i think senator baucus has gone the extra several miles to try to get republican support and i hope that by the end of our markup we will have some republican support. i don't think that we have a final answer for from the republicans as to whether or not they would be able to support a bill coming out of the finance committee. i hope they'll be able to. but i feel very strongly that senator baucus has tried to find something here that would accommodate some of the legitimate concerns the that folks have raised. and at the same time, achieve the objective it is president set out. >> rose: when you look at the medicare cuts, some democrats are questioning whether they are cuts in fact. and republicans say that's part of what's wrong with the baucus plan. >> yeah. and, frankly, there's a lot of irony in this. most of the republicans have been fighting against medicare for years and years and have fought the establishment of it and now they're claiming that they're the great defenders of it. the proposal that

the baucus compromise. insurance premiums for middle class families to be deducted directly from their paychecks. 13% off the top right to the insurance companies. the republicans rejected the democrats can't possibly survive by supporting it. the insurance companies, they love it. their stocks all rose 2% to 3% today. this is the compromise? this is insane. >> it is balanced, a common sense bill that can pass the senate. >> pass the senate? senator baucus, after this turkey you'll be lucky if they let you keep your senate parking spot. >>> carter and courage, the former president elaborates on his comments about racism being at the core of some of the rage about the president. >> there's a feeling among many that an african-american -- >> and he gets the reactionary blowback from the racists he's talking about. >> the nation's [ bleep ] hole would know about the nation's hemorrhoid. >>> portrayed him as a witch doctor, called him family ghetto trash, no racism here. sarah palin's new career, public speakin

is senator baucus. a ten-year $80065 billion proposal, generally reflects the president's vision with a glaring omission, the so-called public option that liberals have been infatuated with. it's nowhere to be found. and that could prove to be fatal for divided democrats. as lawmakers enter what is the final hour of the health care debate, senator baucus says his plan may be the last best hope to pass any kind of health care legislation. dana bash reports from capitol hill. >> reporter: after months of intense negotiations with republicans in search of a bipartisan health care agreement, the democratic finance chairman made his big announcement alone. but still declared -- >> this is a good bill. this is a balanced bill. it can pass the senate. >> reporter: what senator max baucus means by that is his much anticipated health care proposal is more moderate than other democratic bills. the starkest example -- it does not include a government-run insurance option that many democrats called critical to incr

now, we've heard already on this program that you are no fan of the baucus bill, you have a lot of anti-baucus bill fans out there. but at the end of the amendment process in the finance committee, which could take a few weeks, it could involve hundreds and hundreds of amendments and hundreds of changes. how bad does that final senate finance committee bill have to be to make it too bad to vote for? >> if he doesn't have a public option, it's too bad to vote for. if it continues to allow insurance companies to shift more and more of the financial burden to consumers, to americans, it's too bad to vote for. if the premiums have the appearance of being affordable. but you are making people pay so much out of their own pockets that it's just the illusion of affordability, then it's not worth voting for. >> the bill does seem to have some real affordability problems. i did some back of the envelope calculations of my own. if you're at $66,000 of income with a family of four, which by any definition is a very struggling family, having trouble making ends meet every week that they have to pay $700 a

we thought what was the baucus bill mean, what is baucus going to do for sally? doesn't have insurance. >> right. >> she's really in trouble. she needs to get health insurance. one thing the baucus bill will do is it will increase the chances that sally, the student, would qualify for medicaid. now, right now, you have to be relatively poor to qualify for medicaid. this increases the income level that you can have, and also does the same thing for a program called c.h.i.p., the children's health insurance program. >> yeah. >> it makes it more likely that sally would qualify for one of those two programs. >> how about this, what if sally doesn't qualify for either of those two programs? >> if she doesn't qualify for either of those, one of the thing the baucus bill does it creates things called co-ops. you and i have talked about co-ops before, even earlier in this program. a co-op is a health insurance plan, if you will, that's nonprofit and actually run by the patients. so, it's sort of a different model than what most people have in this country. >> got you. so

really we hope to up the pressure on senator baucus. >> montana democrats on senator baucus' action on pretty tough numbers, folks. 55% oppose of what he's doing. 44% support. and i think when you take a look at montana, they're pretty, you know, average american independent-thinking voters. when they hear stories like that, if that doesn't make max baucus turn and go for the public option, it's going to make me think he's either taking marching orders from those who gave him money or taking marching orders from the white house to come up with something different than the public option which would be the co-op. what about the latter? what do you think? >> the co-op? the trigger, the co-op, all of these are not acceptable reform. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. the beltway convention l wisdom is not reflecting what "the new york times" poll on friday showed that 72% of the american public and 50% of republican voters, let alone overwhelming majorities of democrats and independents want the public option. this should be a political no brainer for every politician including the

senator baucus is committed to do that next week.he second stage is to do the markup of that legislation. the third stage is going to be for senator reid, as the majority leader, to decide what portions of the finance bill, if we're able to report a bill out of finance, what portions of that to bring to the senate floor, what portions of the health committee legislation to bring to the senate floor. he's going to have to merge those two. just as the speaker, speaker pelosi, is going to have to do that with the three committee that is have acted in the house. and that's how we'll actually get a bill on the senate floor for conversation. >> senator, one of the thing that is as you know republicans have been clamoring for is tort reform, the idea of limiting medical mall practice awards. president obama seemed to kind of throw that bone out there if other night in his speech, although he was a little vague. your democratic colleague from new mexico said he thought tort reform should be on the table as part of the discussion. what's your

this is senator max baucus's and max baucus's alone.gnature that he doesn't have the buy-in. at the same time the negotiations continue. this is not the do or die day we've been told by democrats and republicans in the so-called gang of six. if you look at this bill, you will see the discussions that have been going on between democrats and republicans and a lot of the things the republicans have wanted are really written all over this bill. they are -- their influence apparent. 223 pages, we're certainly going to be poring over this to bring you all of the details. >> i printed it out myself here trying to get a look at it as well. i imagine that as you continue to pore through it we'll be able to make it -- make more sense to everybody as we go. so, appreciate that brianna keilarment we'll come back to you. 10:00 is when we'll be talking about this live, i understand, senator max baucus as well. >>> moving forward, how will senator baucus's bill affect you. cnn's gerri willis has been looking into that, joining us from new york. 17-pa

is that not the baucus bill in a nutshell? >> well, in fairness, there are some good things in it, too. >> but this is the workings of that bill. >> but here's the problem, and you put your finger right on it. what we're looking at is the possibility of funneling billions into the insurance companies who can then raise their rates over a period of years to any level that they want, and the federal government is going to be bailing them out and subsidizing them big-time. >> you're saying that the gouge, the grip is still going to be on. it won't be true competition, but we're back to this. why are the democrats so stuck on 60 votes? because right now if you have to go get republican votes, it's going to get watered down so bad, the base of the democratic party is going to turn on the president. >> ed, let me just say this, as somebody brings in medical care for all, a very strong public option. the issue of reconciliation, you're dealing with a very complicated procedural process in the senate. there are things you can do with

not a lot of good early reviews for the baucus plan. >> i saw a headline yesterday that said the baucuspport apparently of max baucus. so, you know, at least it's a place to start. i think -- but my friend susie connelly had an interesting piece in "the washington post" today. to paraphrase john mccain, the fundamentals of this are still fairly sound. a lot of deals that have been in place with the constituencies that scuttle the clinton bill 15 or so years ago remain sort of strong. a lot of these people have held their powder. look, these things do tend to be greeted somewhat lukewarmly. i mean, these things are not bipartisanly applauded. it has been sort of looked at as a first step. obviously, not a very warm welcome, but it's part of a process. >> it is part of the process. pat, max baucus has done something that the president has deliberately avoided, and that is he's gotten specific. and if at some point you're going to pass a bill, you've got to get specific and be ready to weather the slings and the arrows. pat, that's what baucus is doing right now for the president. >> exact

senator baucus is committed to do that next week. the second stage is to do the markup of that legislation. the third stage is going to be for senator reid, as the majority leader, to decide what to -- what portions of the finance bill -- if we are able to report a bill out of finance, what portions of that to bring to the senate floor, what portions of the senate help committee to bring to the senate floor, merging those two just as the speaker is going to have to do that with the three committees that have acted in the house. that is how we will get a bill on the senate floor for consideration. >> senator, as you know, republicans have been clamoring for tort reform, limiting metal coil malpractice awards. president obama seemed to throw that out in his speech. your colleague from new mexico says that tort reform should be part of the discussion. what is your view any gang of six? is that going to be part of the ongoing debate? >> it is very much a part of the ongoing debate did the president talked about it and what he is intendin

under the baucus bill you could pay up to 13% or more.and because the mandate is itself a tax and because the amount that you would have to... you would be required to spend on health insurance rises with income, you get these strange tax effects called marginal effective tax rates under the baucus bill which combined with current law would give you tax rates of 60% marginal effective tax rates for some middle income families. >> ifill: that's just a part of this argument about which individuals have to pay. we'll talk at a later date about what corporations have to do. jonathan gruber, m.i.t., in massachusetts and michael cannon from the indicate owe institute, thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> lehrer: you can listen to a series of conversations about health care reform on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. online now is our interview with the author of an article titled "how american health care killed my father." finally tonight, a novel take on the future. jeffrey brown talks with author margaret atwood. >> br

max baucus finally unveiled his plan that was supposed to be bipartisan. it didn't have republican supporters what is the reaction to democrats on the house side what you are hearing what the senate finance committee chairman rolled out today? >> i'm pleased the chairman rolled out a bill. we have a long way to go. i don't believe it is a strong enough bill. it does not contain a robust public option. if we are going to have any real health care reform to reduce the cost of insurance and hold insurance companies accountable and ensure competitiveness in the health care arena you must have a robust public option. this bill doesn't have that. we have a lot of work to do. one of the things we are pushing in the house is to make sure the shouse has the strongest bill possible. >> congresswoman barbara lee, thank you for coming on. >> thank you. >>> up next, a brawl in the bronx. some other stories that make us say, no way. >> you're watching "the big picture." so many arthritis pain relievers -- i just want fewer pills and relief that lasts all day. take 2 ext

still ahead, max baucus' gag order. montana senator sicks federal regulators on a company even though the ceo backs up the claims of medicare cuts. if you think all batteries are the same, consider this: a tornado hits, air life denver takes off... their night-vision goggles keeping the rescue mission safe... and powering those goggles-- the only battery air life trusts: duracell. trusted everywhere. i know landscaping, but i didn't know how wireless could help my business. i just don't know how wireless can help my business. tara showed me how i could keep track of my employees in the field and get more jobs done faster. i was blown away. i'm blown away. only verizon wireless has small-business specialists in every store to help you do business better. we should get you a hat. now buy any blackberry, like the new tour, at our lowest prices ever, and get one free. >> critics better watch what they say about max baucus' health care bill. the senate financial committee sicked regulators on humana last week after it sent a

and senator balk us.a. -- baucus was deteined to come underthat horrble t word, one trillion dollars. the main way he accomplishes th is by keeping thesubsidies, t tax credits and discounts lower than y see in t house bill. >> speakg of the ubsidies, so younow have democra, many liberal and those are baucus' netiating partners, not really the republica anymore especially- except for olympia snw, and even snowe when i interewed her this week sd i want mo subsied for low and middle income people. can they find money fo that? what do you think going to happen o that? >>he other ting that enator baucus put onhis bill hat's a netwist is this big tax on what they cal cadillac insurance policies. but theye really not tht cadillac according to s many pele. he's looking at an $8,00 policy for an individual. we know that many unins, the average policy in thicountry is p around $12,000. soit's a ta that ould potentially hit a loof peopl to your question abot is there room to increase thesubsies, thers always room for a little bit of horstrading. we're really just tting into the fun right now. hi

i was not attacking senator baucus. the president talked to senator baucus yesterday.. >> the complaint, robert, that the baucus bill is being written by k street. people on the left have been critical of max baucus for some time. you read "the huffington post" every day there's a negative story about baucus. isn't there the belief inside the white house that the baucus bill is a bill that's being written by special interests? >> no, i don't think that's the case. i think what is the case is that in the baucus is trying to work as hard as he can with republican colleagues on the senate finance committee. we worked with olympia snowe, with kruk grassley, wichuck gra enzi. we're hoping they'll work through the process. >> chuck grassley is working with you, good town hall meetings out there were. >> you know, what we're trying to do, joe, bring republicans and democrats together. some people don't want to come together and solve this problem. others in that committee we think do, and we think they're serious about health care reform. >> so what is the goal tonight? becau

democrats saying nice thing about the baucus bill. senators mccaskill and ben nelson joining joe lieberman and olympia snowe on it. while we each have senator snowe saying she's flexible on the public option. more flexibility on strategy. michelle obama will begin a packed autumn of events that aides say will be a soft focus on health care and reform. after that dose of political speech i'm joined by our lawrence o'donnell, contributor to the huffington post, former chief of staff. the baucus bill pushing this idea of state exchanges as co-ops. this brought -- this remark from the congressional budget office. the co-ops had little effect on total enrollment in the exchanges or federal cost. so if they're not going to lower cost or drive enrollment up, why co-ops? >> well, they're designed to have very little effect. so it turns out they work fairly well. >> well, yes. >> it's also, unfortunately, for the chairman, it has driven one democratic member of the committee to already announce he's going to vote against it on, on the basis of

max baucus has laid out a plan of about $855 billion over ten years. secretary robert gibbs said the president will be more prediscrepancyive than in the past, but he's still going to show some flexibility. >> there's not a rigidity. he's focused on the end and he's focused on results. i think that's what the american people will see tomorrow night. and that flexibility may be important. the white house has somewhat less incentive to be offering a detailed road map because they don't want to conflict with max baucus. >> what are the stakes? things seem to be going downhill for the. the. >> well, i think they're not going downhill on this subject for the subjepresident, larry. the stakes and the issues are huge. he needs to get something done by the end of the year and his chances are good considering the sizes of his majority. the speech itself is somewhat less important than acting on the issue. his chances are still good of getting something done, notwithstanding the controversy between democrats and republicans. >> and finally, john, do you expect a

in one respect the baucus plan is honest. the c.b.o. has declared it is deficit neutral so it pays for itself and the reason it is hated because in order to achieve that, it has to have all these incredible hidden taxes and they're all hidden because a lot of it ends up in the pockets of insurance companies an ultimately because of taxes on insurance in the government. but it is taxes on the young, on the middle class, on those who don't want health insurance, who will have to pay a fee. it is across the big board. that's why it will get savaged. bret: very quickly, today house speaker nancy pelosi got choked up saying that she thinks the opposition to healthcare reform could end up being violent like the violence in san francisco in the '70's referring to the city hall murder of harvey milk and mayor george moscone back in 1978. fred? >> i thought it was a little hysterical on her part. who was killed just recently? a pro life demonstrator was shot down in the street by somebody who is pro abortion. >> >> and what was the single major

neil: your colleague max baucus said that is not quite what he is up to. he is saying that a lot of this, more than half of this, could be done through savings. we had a guest on his said pretty much the same thing, that the savings could be exacted their pm i just have a tough time. you are closer to the washington history signed than i ever will be, but i have never seen that happen in washington. it would be a first. >> it has not happened. if they tell you it will cost you five, it will cost you 10. keep in mind, when you look at the cbo numbers, they do not even start until 2013. some of the expenses are deferred until 2014. this is around $1 trillion. if you really add it up over 10 years, it could be as much as $2 trillion, and that is the con game that is going on around here. look, i want to help senator baucus, but i predict that all of this, you know, before i left the gang of seven, and became the gang of 6, everything i said back before the august recess has now turned out to be true. when you start talking about employer mandates, but you're

the baucus, the committee said cost about $856 billion.t's going to go up once everybody gets their hands on it. would you say that's going to be the case? >> well, senator baucus is trying to strike a middle ground, the goldilocks strategy, a little bit too warm, too cold, trying to get it in the middle. there will be pushing and pulling on both sides. there will be more money put in to make sure the middle class when they buy insurance it is affordable but at the end of the day it's still substantially below that $1 trillion figure that we've heard and seen before. >> you would say substantially. a lot of people are saying to cover the middle class not enough of the middle class is taken care of and they'll be able to afford the health care and to get more subsidies in there, get more of the help for middle class you have to substantially increase the cost of the bill. >> well, that's going to be the tradeoff. i think to move more of the middle class to make it affordable you have to put more money in. on the other hand there are a lot o

but also today there was some sort of pleasant support for chairman baucus. you know, in the last 24 hours, his name has become much more often used than sometimes with a critical followup. so when you referred to some additional support from people like olympia snowe, her position has not changed. she is not supporting this piece of legislation as it is now. but what she is saying is that she still wants to keep working and she commends the process. remember, max baucus has had a rough 24 hours in terms of how he's been criticized in public and they've been working together for months and months and months. so this was a way to commend what they have been trying to do, to have sort of a good spirit about it as they go forward. because now they're going to sick right back down and get right back to work. so this was one of those kind of nice olive branch moments saying, we can still work on this. >> kelly, that's important to point out as senators nelson and capper know, it's not about extending an ego. or is it just saying he did a good job, or does it sugge

baucus has the momentum, let's fix it and make adjustments. >> and harold, you look at baucus, and then alters the tax treatment so it creates portability or if we change our jobs we can take it. you have the baucus impact, and real competition on the exchange. we can all go to the exchange and look for it. not just us that are freelancers. >> you know, mika, we need to get with ron wyden on the bill and get him to talk about this. i think this is one of the most critical points. if you want true free-market forces in the health insurance industry, this is how we do it. >> let me ask dylan before we go. what is your sense of the federal reserve's assessment of the economy? >> in a nutshell, again, a year later the government gets an a or maybe an a minus on how we handled the bailout. a fragile system was breaking and they were able to support it. it costs us $23 trillion. that's the use of the money, and not necessarily the expenditure of it. what kind of a system requires the use of $23 trillion in taxpayer capital in that subsidy, simply to make the banking system work? that's eviden

for months, baucus sought support of more republicans, but that looked unlikely when he unveiled his proposal, or so- called "mark", this morning. >> the mark before us today is a balanced, common-sense plan that takes the best ideas from both sides. it's designed to get the 60 votes that it needs to pass. now, the choice is up to us. >> reporter: in their opening remarks, senators fell largely along party lines. republicans complained the bill has too many new taxes that would hurt the middle class, something president obama promised he would not allow when he ran for president. >> as our deficit continues to rise and our debt triples in the next decade, all these taxes will continue to rise. this bill is laying the seeds. we are giving washington a whole new checkbook. >> reporter: ranking republican charles grassley. >> this bill has new taxes on everything from q-tips to pacemakers, from cancer screenings to pregnancy tests. there is even a $60 billion across-the-board health plan tax. experts and economists say all of these health care taxes will be passed on to consumers. >> re

there were a few boos when he brought up the baucus proposal.part it was a very adoring audience, a very loud audience, the president saying he will get health care reform done but he also called out his critics. >> we have all got a stake in getting this right. that's why i said i will embrace good ideas wherever they come from. we already have. but we have also seen the same kind of partisan spectacle that has left so many people disappointed by washington. scare tactics instead of honest debates. too many use this as an opportunity to score short-term political points instead of working together to solve a long-term challenge. >> the white house says the president will continue pushing hard trying to drum up support for health care reform and a senior administration official says that the first lady, michelle obama will also be taking a more active role involved in pushing for health care reform. i tried to get more details on that and officials are saying stay tuned. >>> there's political fallout after those embarrassing videos against a.c.o

>> on the baucus bill, what's so infuriating, ed, is we have seen baucus sacrifice critical democratic priorities and time. think of the time lost if he hadn't been playing footsie with these republicans who made pretty clear early on they didn't want to do bipartisanship. we would have gone into august. if the president is truly a consensus seeker, he has the possibility to do that with these four bills. >> the guy, jim demint, from south carolina, waterloo, failure, all that stuff. now he's threatening other people in the republican caucus. don't go over there and do anything with this guy. >> ronald reagan once said it takes two to tango. this republican party, it don't want to dance. it wants to sit on its hands. the fundamental struggle, the health care debate is critical for our country. as you said about demint, they want to take down president obama and de-lidge mize him. that's what we're going to get to. that's what president carter was also talking about. they see the opportunity here to have the president fail and that's what this health care fight is largely about on the r

here's how "washington post" describes the baucus plan.t would require nearly all americans to carry health insurance while barring health insurance companies denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions. the plan does not call for a government-run insurance option but would set up a system of non-profit consumer-owned cooperatives to compete with the private insurers. with us, ron wyden of oregon. senator widen, thank you so much for coming. you were just with president obama. you know what we don't know. where's this stand? your position on the bill from baucus? what the president is going to do to meet your needs? >> chris, i have a rule i will talk about what i said to a president but i won't get into private comments the president makes back. i and senator bennett made the case for bipartisanship. we think there is a natural opportunity. at this point in the united states democrats are right that you cannot fix this unless you cover everybody. you've got to have good quality, affordable coverage for everybody or else the uninsu

this is max baucus with some big news. >> next week.g to move that finance committee and mark got health care reform the week after next. this is our moment. we have spent many weeks and months on this issue and now is the time to move forward. >> [inaudible] >> i'm very much hope and expect there will be some republicans when i issue the mark next week, and then when me go to markoff the following week. my door is open, and i think i will move forward anyway, irrespective of the public. we have to move forward. i told chuck grassley that just one hour ago. i also said that two key senators a while ago. we will have day mark next week, and i expect republicans to be on board. i do not know how many. if there are not any, i will move forward, in any event. >> does that mean there is one more week to go for bipartisan coffee? >> it means there is quite a bit of time left for bipartisan support. that is expected by some number of republicans, i do not know how many. after that, we go to mark up, and then there will be plenty of time for re

max baucus laid out his bill, some liberals don't like it is getting some flack. how significant is that or is that not significant at all because he has got the votes to move in the finance committee? >> i think a lot of that will have to depend on public opinion, hear a lot about details, the health care plans, the coming weeks, backroom negotiating. i think we are in a phase this will be driven by public opinion. >> why do you say that? because my impression is that this is an inside game right now. >> right. >> and that the whole game from the white house is get this thing moving out of the finance committee, get to the floor. if they can get olympia snow, as we were talking about earlier with david herszenhorn, they could have 60 votes, so, why -- which legislators are going to stop from their committee markup next weekend, take polls and figure out what they are going to do? >> i think because in order to get this block of moderate senators, democrats, couple of republicans, maine is a perfect example of a state in play, in order to get the folks to tip over