as senator baucus said, i hope we can resolve a timely fashion. senator baucus. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have a few remarks and pass it over to senator casey. senator casey will lead off a bit on payroll. i think senator kyl will be our lead off on sgr. it's back to the payroll tax. just a couple of numbers here to help confirm its importance. it expires and it will be a tax increase on 160 million american workers. i don't think we want that. i think that would include 600,000 employees in the state of montana. clearly, expiration would hamper economic recovery. we all want unemployment down. we want to do what we can to help boost the economy. extending the payroll tax will help in that regard. economists that i have seen are pretty much in agreement that gdp growth would decline by about 1.3% or about $200 billion if it were to expire. i think americans who experienced the tax cut need it for one more year. that will give it a little certainty d confidence that congress is not a yo-yo in acting up and down. i think certainty and predictability is very important here. i urg

senator baucus, there anything you wanted to say by way of closing? >> not on this subject. i think it would be important for us to determine when we next meet and the subject of the meeting. >> thank you. i want to thank everyone for the productive discussion we had this morning. i think we have begun to start to narrow on some of these issues and identify some of the areas of agreement. well will meet again tomorrow at 10:00 in this room. and we will get to you later today the topics for discussion tomorrow. but i look forward to seeing everyone at 10:00 in this room. yes, senator? >> and if i can just reconfirm, the senate will be sending an offer to the house? >> yes. >> today. so you'll have ample time to look at it before we meet tomorrow morning. >> that's why i wanted to leave the topics open. >> good. >> so we'll look forward to reviewing that this afternoon. >> thank you. this meeting is adjourned. >> hi. how are you. >>> tuesday you can watch the house and senate conference committees continuing negotiations on extending the payroll tax cut. we'll have that live a

chairman. >> senator baucus? i don't think i have any other statements. >> let me just respond briefly. and that is, there's a lot of agreement here as to the purpose of this adjustment. when the affordable care act was passed, we wanted to provide affordability for our lower income wage earners. that's why we provided credit. the problem is, that that determination is made before we know the taxable income of the individual. so people make estimates in good faith. these are the lower-wage workers and we want to make sure as senator, congressman levin said, they are in fact encouraged to use the system to get insurance. because that's what we want them to be. we want them to be covered. so from the beginning, we recognize there was a need to do an audit at the end of the taxable year. so that there was not a, an overcredit beyond what we thought was reasonable for people to be able to expect. so you're correct. this is part of the framework for how the credits for lower-wage workers was intended to work. and it w

i yield back. >> senator baucus, senator carden? >> thank you, mr. chairman. first, let me concur with senator baucus in that, to me, it's the illogical to say that we're going to ask medicare beneficiaries, most of whom do not work, to pay for the temporary tax relief giving to working families under the payroll tax holiday. i just think that's not a logical way for us to be going over our business here. so, first i concur with senator baucus's observations that we shouldn't be looking at this type of a source to offset that type of a cost. secondly, let me agree with senator levin. i think the point he raises is worth repeating. the intent here is to freeze the bracket at $80,000 to start. to freeze it, permanently, until we reach 25%. one out of every four seniors who would be subject to this higher part b premium. not 5%. we're talking about getting to as much as 25% of our seniors who would be subject to the surtax. let me also point ought we already have a progressive. that is, a financing mechanism in for medicare that those that make more money pay mor

i will yield to senator baucus to discuss the unemployment insurance. >> thank you. a few points before i turn to jack reid. he is leading the senate charge. we do, i think, want to address and help those people who are unemployment. unemployment levels are way too high. 8.5%. slowly coming down. clearly not coming down quickly enough. that leaves about 13 million people in america unemployed. 13 million americans unemployed. some of these folks are neighbors. some i don't know personally. it is an individual tragedy that people are out of work through no fault of their own. they are stuck. they cannot find a job. it is hard to find a job in the new economy. it is just harder. these are people that, i think, deserve our attention. on a macro level, for every dollar spent on unemployment benefits, there is a multiplier effect. at least $2 positive effect on the economy. we get much greater bang for our buck, frankly, with federal dollars and state dollars spend on benefits than i think any other program. cbo issued the charts. nobody has disputed those charts. it is v

so with that, senator baucus, the time is yours. >> thank you, mr. chairman. these are interesting microphones. it's true they're light to touch. it's also true the red light is the dimmest red light i've ever seen in my life. you have to really look at it. i appreciate the comments congressman levin, mr. chairman. i think we should look at supplemental grants. it's true secularly outside the scope of the conference. but, you know, we're probably going to need 60 votes in the senate anyway. and a house rules can do what it wants if we agree here to the provision such as this. i have a hunch that it will prevail. second, it's not a lot of money here. it's in the neighborhood of like a couple hundred, million. and it is also true as congressman levin pointed out without it some states, some kids in some states are in much worse condition than kids in other states. so i would hope that we can work our way through that and find a way to include it. i believe now according to the program we're going to a different subject. >> in agreement. there wasn't a vote to te

yield back. >> senator baucus. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield to the senator from maryland. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. let me just point out a couple of things first to congressman upton. the legislate you were referring to was filed prior to the station' request where they were asked to meet with the industry and make modifications. since they were filed they did meet with the industry, they did make modifications and weep are prepared to move forward. i'm going to point out university boilers are no longer in the regulations. so we need to update to where we are today rather than going back to where we were a year ago. let me point out to senator grasso, the number -- again, you're referring to some of the revisions that were in the original regulation that had been modified. the numbers are nowhere near 200,000. the number is about 1,700 that are estimated will need to make modifications in order to comply with the regulation. and i think the major point i would just argue -- we're all entitled to our own views and i un

senator baucus. >> i'll be -- i'll defer, frankly, to the senator. i'll follow him. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i understand we have a short time frame so i'll try to be very brief. this hopefully is one of the provisions on which we will be able to develop early and strong support and consensus. as you've already indicated, chairman camp, a number of times during the past decade congress has responded to difficult economic times but allowing capital formation to be given a strong boost through changing the depreciation provisions in our tax code, allowing small businesses in particular but business to depreciate on a more rapid basis their investments in equipment and machinery that will enable them not only to maintain their production but to grow and develop more jobs. as -- just as a reminder, the current law, which was developed during the december 2010 compromises enacted 100% bonus depreciation for the year 2011 and then a 50% bonus depreciation for 2012. and what the house bill does, which is what i'm supporting, what i think we ought to hope

senator baucus. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate that. and there is a great deal of consensus and i certainly agree with my colleague from maryland, congressman van holland. our focus needs to be on dealing with the payroll tax and medicare issues and unemployment insurance and i certainly support the bonus depreciation. i think that's an important tool we need to continue. i'm somewhat confused by the house rules. i served in the house for a long time but i'm con toous. i thought your house rules allowed to you extend the tax breaks for the highest income people without any offsets but maybe i was wrong about that. and now you're saying that we have long standing tax policies that you -- i know that's for a different day but i would think that there should be a different standard used when we're talking about extending current policies that have been long standing but i think that's an issue that has to be coupled with this discussion and i know we're trying to get the policy today but i agree that how we offset this is very much affecti

i concur with senator baucus of's observation -- senator baucus's observation that we should not be looking at this kind of offset for cost. i think the point that mr. levin raises is worth repeating. the intent is permanent until we reach 25%. one of out of every four seniors would be required. it would be as much as 25% of seniors that would be subject to this surtax. let me point out the financing mechanism for medicare allows for people who make more to pay more for the same benefits. we ask those who are more well- off to contribute more currently. i think we need to emphasize that. as i am sure everyone here is aware, the payroll taxes people pay for social security is capped at $106,000. but the amount that is contributed by the fight the taxes -- fica taxes for medicare is not capped. if a person makes $100,000, they are paying into the medicare trust fund, whereas someone who is making the maximum on the social security withholding, $106,000, is paying little less than $1,600 into the medicare trust fund. so, we already have a progressive way for those who are more well-off paying

i'm prepared to move forward on any other items that senator baucus may wish to discuss if that's the -- i guess senator casey. sorry. >> i have less than a minute so it will be quick and it's on 100% expensing. the key point here answered know there's a lot of agreement on this but i just wanted to say a real person in the real world on december 22nd bloomberg reporter katherine dodge wrote the following -- she talked about campbell fittings, a maker of industrial host couple lings using this particular tax break to buy equipment that allowed the family-owned business about 50 miles northwest of philadelphia to offer more innovative products at a lower cost to better compete with overseas rivals. here what's joe mcguinn said, the executive vice president, quote, it's putting people to work right now, end of quote. that's all i need to say about the great idea. >> mr. chairman. >> i think senator baucus is a senate republican -- >> no. >> i wanted to make a comment on a different subject if i could. as i've been look around the table -- >> no, we're in 100%. >> i've noted the size of

. >> thank you, senator baucus, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, you started this morning by reading what the words say, which is important. it is temporary. it's assistance to needy families. and i think it's really about two issues, really. one is trying to achieve self-sufficient efficiency in the lives of people who have really struggled, and also getting back to work, which is vital. i think that's why we're getting the kind of consensus we are. in program is a lifeline for families that have be so devastated, especially in the aftermath of this recession. and i know there are a lot of reforms that the committees of jurisdiction can deal with and should deal with. but i also believe that getting an agreement right now to extend this is very important. just this fall, the joint economic committee, the democratic staff put together a report entitled "assessing the impact of the great recession on income and poverty across the states." obviously it outline and highlighted the poverty increases for all americans. but i thought it was unf

i'll pick up what max baucus said and others. we must reach agreement and we must reach agreement within ten months and i think that means we need to resist finger-pointing and, instead, really work very hard together. the urgency demands it. all right, i'll let the next bite of the apple be postponed. >> i think there upton is psyching recognition. >> using the baucus touch on the mic. the light doesn't work but it's on. i want to say, just a cou things. this provision was within the scope of the conference because we included it, if you recall, in the house-passed bill. and we had a separate vote on this issue as an item under suspension and it passed nearly 3-1, i would compliment my colleague from pennsylvania for voting for it last week, as i recall. 99% of federal employees that were eligible last year for a step increase, all federal employees have the table. they know where they are, step one, et cetera. so nearly 100%. 99% of federal employees were eligible for a step increase and, in fact, got it. an increase that avera

commission was strongly supported by senator baucus, senator murray, myself and others. it's my understanding the commission members were selected by the gao in september of 2010, which is nearly 18 months ago, but they've not been able to work because they haven't had any funding. now, i think there is some provision in this budget to provide initial funding and i just wondered if you could give us an update what can be expected. is this commission going to be allowed to proceed to do its work and when? >> well, senator, i share your interest in the work of not only this commission but the necessary work that needs to be done looking at the entire health care workforce. whether or not we had an affordable care act, we have some workforce challenges as america ages and look at misalignment where the health care provider are and where the people are, don't often match, so that we have been working on this from day one, as you know the recovery act provided resources. affordable care act continues the resources. more training, more gme, more shifts in focus. we are eager t

. >> senator baucus. >> i yield to senator reed for two minutes. >> mr. chairman, one of the issues here i think is what rule are we talking about, the original rule that was proposed or the rule that has now been revised extensively with collaboration from industry and is much more focused. as the subcommittee chairman for the appropriations committee that responds to the epa, i had the occasion to listen to lots of proposals with respect to epa jurisdictions the last year. with respect to issue we concluded, these are the both republicans and democrats, house and senate, the conferees are encouraged by the outcomes of epa's reconsideration of the boiler mack rule and offer no redirection regarding boiler mack standards. it includes additional flexibility with respect to biocourse and the last time we bicamerally took up the issue, epa was making progress. i think we should let them continue to make that progress and deploy a rule that's effective. with that i would yield my time back. >> i yield. we have about three minutes left. i'll give it to senator

senator baucus, i recognize you. new issue. >> yeah. somhing we all know we need to address. frustrated we always have to continue the doc fix year after year after year as it gets more and more and ed to find a way to solve it. i would like to turn to senator kyl. he's got some ideas. we talked some length the last four or f finding a solution here. and the lead person here is senator kyl. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and colleagues. i think there is pretty broad agreement on the thingatdo, and beginning of a consensus on something that would be good to do if we can. first of all we have to decide how much of a so-called update physicians will receive, if any, and how long we will fund the medicare physicians. the hobi two-year funding level. my guess is that if we can find the right offsets, thd all appreciate the desirability of having the longer period of time rather than something shorter than that to provide for .ram the other thing we need to make a decision on is which if any of the extenders, the so-called medicare extenders need to be extended.ird thing, whi

which is the hero of interesting there's an investigation against mr baucus and maybe it's going to be found out that he did something but we're talking about you know the trade specifically with spencer baucus and i'm not going to defend him whatsoever because i think that there's a lot of problematic things that he's done but we're talking about real pittances here which sure that's wrong and so if we highlight things wrong but we're talking about you know ten thousand dollar tree and whatnot this is the amount of focus has been put on this is completely unwarranted relative to the other massive problems massive corruption things that go on crony capitalism washington it's not to say that this is not bad stuff and saying that this is a smokescreen away from what real corruption is in d.c. i would say then let's talk about the political intelligence industry which democrats are really upset about being left out of the stock act i mean do you think that represents a little bit of the bigger picture though right because that activity on capitol hill that then is being sold yes but ev

he is no liberal, but he tried to be receptive to liberals like shinsee baucus. -- senator baucus. we heard him an edge the gop position and a back. the house legislation would allow construction to start immediately on one end of the pipeline, but give nebraska there 8 -- their 8 months to figure out a route. >> where is this house legislation? could it be attached to something moving out of that chamber. >> the transportation bill is coming up for a vote next week. where is its destination in the sense -- in the senate. >> badging get up with a senate bill is quite different. -- matching its up with a senate bill is quite different. they wanted to approve a payroll tax extension. >> where is the administration on the keystone pipeline? >> they effectively tried to delay until 2013 to give the state of nebraska more time. once we saw the payroll tax compromise, the president used the 60 day deadline to set, i am not rejecting the pipeline on the merits. republicans forced my hand and they will have to start from scratch. it could be delayed to 2014 or beyond. >> politically, it wa

he is no liberal, but he tried to be receptive to liberals like shinsee baucus. -- senator baucus. they do not like this pipeline. >> we should mention barbara boxer is on the energy committee. >> we heard him an edge the gop position and a back. the house legislation would allow construction to start immediately on one end of the pipeline, but give nebraska there 8 -- their 8 months to figure out a route. essentially they would do both. we would start building now but wait until they review. >> where is this house legislation? could it be attached to something moving out of that chamber. >> the transportation bill is coming up for a vote next week. >> could that pass out of the house? where is its destination in the sense -- in the senate. >> badging get up with a senate bill is quite different. -- matching its up with a senate bill is quite different. they will have to come up with the funding to pay for the transportation bill so that there are questions. >> keystone in the senate? >> there is a push from senator dick lugar and others and they're trying to move the bill through

senator baucus, is there anything you want to say by way of closing? >> i think it is important for us to determine when we next meet. >> i want to thank everyone for the productive discussion we had this morning. i think we have begun to start to narrow on some of these issues and identify some areas of agreement. we will meet again tomorrow at 10:00 in this room, and we will get to you later today, the topics for discussion. i look forward to seeing everyone at 10:00 in this room. >> just to confirm, the senate will be sending an offer to the house. >> we will have ample time to look at it before we meet tomorrow. that is why wanted to leave the topics open. rigell of forward to reviewing that this afternoon. thank you. -- we will look forward to reviewing it this afternoon. this meeting is adjourned. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> by 2016, according to the imf, the world's leading economy will be a communist dictatorship. that is in five years' time. think about tha

alabama republican spen somewhere baucus -- spencer baucus says he expects to be exonerated in the probeethics. >>> the fox news poll finds 13% of those surveyed are happy with how baucus and his colleagues are doing their job. 79% are not. we told you thursday about the $25 billion deal between the government and big mortgage lenders to cover foreclosure abuse. tonight, correspondent doug mckelway looks at whether this is a good deal or no deal for consumers. >> joe and liza. diamond of set everyville, virginia, consider obama's latest program to aid homeowners. the plan is allowed million more americans to refinance at lower rate. >> it would drop our monthly and principle interest $350 a month. >> it's not just homeowners whose loans are backed by freddie mac and fannie mae but all of those homeowners who are current on the payment. even if property is worth less than the outstanding balance. >> we know they are looking to refinance. they may live in copped minimums or cooperative or live in areas with high foreclosure rate or the fico may have been impaired. or they have depressed va

i concur with senator baucus of's observation -- senator baucus's observation that we should not be looking at this kind of offset for cost. i think the point that mr. levin raises is worth repeating. the intent is permanent until we reach 25%. one of out of every four seniors would be required. it would be as much as 25% of seniors that would be subject to this surtax. let me point out the financing mechanism for medicare allows for people who make more to pay more for the same benefits. we ask those who are more well- off to contribute more currently. i think we need to emphasize that. as i am sure everyone here is aware, the payroll taxes people pay for social security is capped at $106,000. but the amount that is contributed by the fight the taxes -- fica taxes for medicare is not capped. if a person makes $100,000, they are paying into the medicare trust fund, whereas someone who is making the maximum on the social security withholding, $106,000, is paying little less than $1,600 into the medicare trust fund. so, we already have a progressive way for those who are more well-off paying

i agree with senator baucus of's initial comments. -- senator baucus's initial comments. let me talk about this for a moment. mac is the maximum allowable concentration. it seems any time there is a regulation proposed to deal with cleaning up the air from our polluters, there are those who say they cannot afford it and it will result in job loss. i think that is a big question. you can have clean air, and you can have job growth. the results of clean-air are well-known. is a requirement of the regulatory structure. there is a peer review that gives us an overview of the cost and the benefit to society. last year, it was credited with preventing 86,00086,000 hospitae aborted because of the clean air regulations. 13 million days lost by employment was avoided because of the clean air act. the cost-benefit analysis we required to be done showed a 40-one cost benefit analysis. that is, 40 times more savings to society, than the cost of reducing the pollution. so let me dispel some of the mets, as it were -- pertains to boiler mact. first, there is this point that last year t

levin and especially from senator baucus. look, our time is short. we do need to find pay-fors that will pass both bodies. i would ask all the conferrees to remain flexible. because we don't have a lot ever time left and we need to begin to move very quickly. so in terms of scheduling, i can't give a prediction. but we do need to remain flexible, to be able to get together on a moment's notice, so with that, this meeting is now ajurned. >>> we're going live to the rayburn house office building on capitol hill, where house energy and commerce subcommittee is beginning a hearing on cybersecurity threats to the u.s. and the role of federal government. the heads of several internet security firms are witnesses this morning. >> threats to communications networks have come a long way in a very short time and they're very, very real and serious. before coming to congress, i spent about 22 years as radio broadcaster and as a small businessman, i had to worry about securing our communications network. back then, it was 20 years ago, relatively straightforward

. >> one is certainly at a staff level, the other is going to be member level as senator baucus said, and hopefully those can be going on at the same time. because the senate bill was silent on so many of these issues, we need to have some idea of where the senate is coming from so we can begin to talk about how we resolve -- we know our differences, we heard today and yesterday on those issues, so i -- >> these are all member issues, all three of these big subjects are member issues, and i think the staff should work, but we need to find a way to have the fullest exchange among members. >> i think we'll be able to take care of that issue. i think there's an understanding of what's going on, and senator baucus, unless you have something to add, i'll be prepared to adjourn this meeting. >> thank you. >> we're now adjourned. >>> tuesday you can watch the negotiations on extending the payroll tax cut. we'll have that live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.org. >>> this past week, senate and house lawmakers continued negotiations to extend payroll tax cuts on workers. the cuts expires at th

baucus's common. i think it is progress we have moved beyond december. i just want to say how that separating policy from pay forests is somewhat problematic, because the pay- fors involve policy. i think we should not assume there will be no reference to whether we pay for and how we pay for it while we accept the notion that we are going to try today to focus on policies and not address the issue of pay- fors, but there is a relationship in terms of policy of whether repay for and how. >> when we know all the policies we have, we will know all the pay-fors we are going to have. i am glad to see that at least for this part of it, i realized is a partial step forward, but again, i think it helps us at least narrow the issue and narrow our focus that when we meet again, we can decide how we proceed. we do have up to 90 minutes of discussion on unemployment insurance and as we discussed in the last meeting, i look forward to hearing the senate's position on some of the reforms that the house proposed. i will yield to senator baucus to begin our discussion

while tax writers dave camp and max baucus were crit dool the deal, boehner's senior aides helped negotiate key provisions of the deal. later on it says consider how a provision to sell broadband spectrum, a key component that paid for the extension of jobless benefits came together. it wasn't resolved until around 10:30 p.m. on wednesday night when senator majority leader harry reid's chief of staff david krone and boehner's top aide barry jackson reached an agreement. the two had been at loggerheads over how much money the spectrum sales would raise. jackson pegged the figure higher than krone believed it to be. krone offered to fill any gap with money from increased fees on fannie mae and freddie mac. payne boeh boehner's camp rejected that offer. the two sides agreed and that part of the deal was done. that's a little behind the scenes from jake sherman pof lit co. back to your calls. next up is a call from columbia, south carolina. good morning to jim, a republican. you're on the air. >> caller: good morning. how are you? >> great, thanks. >> caller: i wanted to say, the reason they ca

so it was notable and sort of showed you how camp, people like camp and people like baucus really want to sort of be left alone so they can sort of slopely go through this process to try and reach an agreement. meanwhile, people on both sides are trying to sort of seize the political advantage and people like camp feel that that doesn't really help them much. >> we're talking with sam goldfarb of cq roll call. let's talk calendar. the house is here this week and next week but off for presidents' day week. that leads to the february 29th deadline. >> right. i mean, the conference committee might be making slow progress and might be trying to remain optimistic, but even they acknowledge that they really don't have the much time at all and there's a real disconnect there. so it's -- i guess that's what's led some people to speculate that they might do another short-term extension just 0 buy time for a little bit more negotiations. on the other hand, some people say that they really don't want to do that because they just don't want to do these short-term fixes. they just want to get this

in order for max baucus to preserve their monopoly exemption so that they don't have to compete with each other it is much more profitable for those businesses to go to the white house on the health care debate and persuade the president president obama in this case to not create a competitive environment for drugs as long as people can avoid the natural pressures of an entrepreneurial and innovative environment and the experimentation and failure that comes naturally from doing that because they can pay off the government to either prevent themselves from having to compete and or pay off the government to transfer the actual cost of what they're doing to them but here we're getting upon another one of those problems right which is you're saying as long as we can try to find a way to avoid that but if people are always going to be motivated by profit you're not going to take that element out of the that's a good thing and it's a good thing but so then how do you actually come up with any solutions and you can say that at the moment right it's the government that is helping to you and

one of the bargainers is on the legislation, democratic senator max baucus, says leaders are just putting on the final touches. >> we're there. there are just a couple little weres that sometimes get in the way but i think they'll be all ironed out today. >> nbc captain hill correspondent kelly o'donnell joins me now from washington. explain this emerging deal. leaders from both sides agree it's a good deal, however, they want to the highlight different parts of it. >> they certainly do like highlighting different parts because both sides wants to walk away and say they got something done and it was good for their party, as well. this has really been how do you find enough cuts to pay for the continuation of some of these benefits. by continuing to the payroll tax cut through the rest of the year, extendsing unemployment benefits at the federal level for the most long-term unemployed and something that gets less attention, thomas, which is preventing a huge real economic hit to doctors who provide medicare services. something that's written into the law that if they don't make the change,