becausecomplicated, there are still 7.2 billion people around.t is where we have a bit of confusion. francine: is your great -- europe great? >> it has its challenges, because without the european union there is nothing that holds them together. but i believe we have seen the worst in terms of being pulled in different directions. it seems to me it is more integrating -- francine: so we don't somehow forget the concerns of populism, and then it comes back uglier in five years? >> i am very encouraged that people saw, this is not going my way, this fiscal populism. are more people going to elections to vote than there used to be. this was the most encouraging topic to me, that people said, it is time to really take it. that is quite positive. francine: how do you see china? >> the chinese way is typically sit down and smile. francine: and behind closed doors? >> and look what happens. world,with the western we mean what we say. if they are nervous toledo global trade, things like that, why don't we do this job for them? people, so billion why both