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Sep 5, 2011
09/11
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KCSM
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this is beirut, lebanon. this is haifa, israel. across a globe in michigan, this is dearborn.nd this is southfield. dearborn and southfield are suburbs of detroit. dearborn has the largest concentration of arabs outside the middle east. and southfield has a significant concentration of jewish people. and now that we're at war with each other, relations between the two communities at times reflect the tensions of the middle east. some of these tensions are covered in the local newspapers. >> last year we had an editorial that was published. it was published right on super bowl day in detroit. >> we are a right of center conservative page. >> and the editorial is on sunday, he says that -- that palestinians have lust for jewish blood. >> it was very critical of palestinians, but that's not the problem of being critical. it was dehumannizing them. >> and describing palestinians as terrorists. >> same thing, they have a unique nature against self-interest >> and they're waiting for a moment, for the right moment to kill the jew. what type of a statement is this made by an editoria
this is beirut, lebanon. this is haifa, israel. across a globe in michigan, this is dearborn.nd this is southfield. dearborn and southfield are suburbs of detroit. dearborn has the largest concentration of arabs outside the middle east. and southfield has a significant concentration of jewish people. and now that we're at war with each other, relations between the two communities at times reflect the tensions of the middle east. some of these tensions are covered in the local newspapers....
SFGTV: San Francisco Government Television
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Sep 30, 2011
09/11
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SFGTV
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eye 66
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slide, we have a diagram of the public outrage plan, which in the case of san francisco and the west beirut -- we have identified three public meetings. one would be later this winter to go through detailed scientific studies. about a year from now, we would meet to go over what we are finding it preliminarily, the information coming out. finally, in meeting to report what we found from various studies, we would prepare to move forward with a recommendation one way or the other four condition action. we expect to meet with six to 10 agencies to solicit their planning concerns. within the last month, we have met with two groups -- the bay area water stewards on august 24. about 20 folks were there, representing different environmental groups. and bawsca, to discuss the concerns we had and this presentation to talk about the regional desalination project. on august 29, we met with a water task force to review the same information so they were informed as we could make them, based on what we know now. we are recommending again that we go forward with this study. we think it will provide useful
slide, we have a diagram of the public outrage plan, which in the case of san francisco and the west beirut -- we have identified three public meetings. one would be later this winter to go through detailed scientific studies. about a year from now, we would meet to go over what we are finding it preliminarily, the information coming out. finally, in meeting to report what we found from various studies, we would prepare to move forward with a recommendation one way or the other four condition...
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Sep 10, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN2
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eye 208
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there have been a lot of reports that he was womanizing and drinking when he was a teenager in beirut. it's hard to disprove a -- it's very hard to disprove something that didn't happen. but as far as i can tell, he was a sort of religious teenager. there were reports he was funded or trained by the c.i.a. these are -- fail all sorts of commonsense tests apart from everything else. if you were the c.i.a. case officer who ran bin laden, most of these people retirement age now, you got a $20 million book contract right there. when conspiracies happen and the iran-contra, these kinds of things, people talk about them. the notion that the c.i.a. was involved in training or funding bin laden, who has, a, had a lot of his own money, b, was pathologically anti-american from an early age, it defies common sense. >> you named the publications and went to the specific point they were making. "jane's intelligence review," that bin laden obtained an intelligence degree in the united states and you called it respect bable, why would they publish something like that? >> largely because his family i
there have been a lot of reports that he was womanizing and drinking when he was a teenager in beirut. it's hard to disprove a -- it's very hard to disprove something that didn't happen. but as far as i can tell, he was a sort of religious teenager. there were reports he was funded or trained by the c.i.a. these are -- fail all sorts of commonsense tests apart from everything else. if you were the c.i.a. case officer who ran bin laden, most of these people retirement age now, you got a $20...
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Sep 10, 2011
09/11
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KQED
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eye 204
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i had been through that before but only in places like beirut. >> we all covered it as reporters but we all felt it as americans at the same time. later that day, i went home and we went to a house of some friends and their 11-year-old son, we were watching tv and it was all very confusing and and i remember him pulling me aside and saying, you know what's going on, explain to me what's happened, explain to me what's happened, and the sense that our kids were terrified. >> i think there's part of every american who remembers that day, that they will have, somewhere inside them, that's afraid. >> this thought that immediately came into my head was, i felt sorry for my children. i knew that my children would live under a different type of shadow, a different type of threat that would never go away and would never know when it might hit or not hit. >> it was a day that required you to both toughen up and realize you were in for several years of tough work, and also watch people and their lives come apart. >> for weeks afterward, the most amazing experience, just the personal experience
i had been through that before but only in places like beirut. >> we all covered it as reporters but we all felt it as americans at the same time. later that day, i went home and we went to a house of some friends and their 11-year-old son, we were watching tv and it was all very confusing and and i remember him pulling me aside and saying, you know what's going on, explain to me what's happened, explain to me what's happened, and the sense that our kids were terrified. >> i think...
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very soon go from from beirut when the in the midst of the height. you can't pretend it wasn't from football star hopefully the newbies are. prime minister is going to a foreign country bring you good cheer and i thought it was tasteless and of course we can as the authority of the of the domestic government who at this particular juncture should've been at least allowed to present themselves as being the victor was abundantly clear this was the british french victory and that's what was it was designed to signify and what does that mean now does that give them responsibility that they might not be able to meet i think it does i think the british and french have a very strong responsibility to make absolutely sure this does not. failed that may well mean sending in troops when you invade a country you caught and then say we've done our job we're going to go because people look to you to continue the revolution that you started with. i just don't see how we can abandon libya if if as is at least possible possibly improbable how they could break out wh
very soon go from from beirut when the in the midst of the height. you can't pretend it wasn't from football star hopefully the newbies are. prime minister is going to a foreign country bring you good cheer and i thought it was tasteless and of course we can as the authority of the of the domestic government who at this particular juncture should've been at least allowed to present themselves as being the victor was abundantly clear this was the british french victory and that's what was it was...
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Sep 11, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN2
tv
eye 290
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and instinct that echoes through the ages from pearl harbor to beirut, mogadishu to ground zero, flightr by stateless actors, bent on changing our way of life. who believed that these horrible acts, these horrible acts of terror directed against citizens could buckle our knees, could bend our will, to begin to break us, to break our resolve. but they did not know us. instead, that same american instinct that sent all of you into the breach between the fourth and fifth corridors, galvanize an entire new generation of patriots. the 9/11 generation. many of them were just kids on that bright september morning, but like their grandparents, on december 7, 1941, they courageously bore the burden that history had placed on their shoulders. and as they came of age, they showed up. they showed up to fight for their country. and they are still showing up. 2,800,000 of that 9/11 generation moved to join our military since the attacks on 9/11. to finish the war begun here that day. and they joined, they joined knowing that they were in all likelihood going to be deployed in harm's way. and many cas
and instinct that echoes through the ages from pearl harbor to beirut, mogadishu to ground zero, flightr by stateless actors, bent on changing our way of life. who believed that these horrible acts, these horrible acts of terror directed against citizens could buckle our knees, could bend our will, to begin to break us, to break our resolve. but they did not know us. instead, that same american instinct that sent all of you into the breach between the fourth and fifth corridors, galvanize an...
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Sep 21, 2011
09/11
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FOXNEWSW
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we would be putting americans in harm's way, as we did in beirut. as we did in somalia.and we have other times in our history. it is not enough. we need 10 to 13,000 troops on the border between kurdistan and iraq. it is very dangerous for technical and intelligence capabilities and help with their air force. no military person has recommended a low number such as 3,000. >> greta: when do we hear? we read in the media 3,000. is it the president doesn't yet -- hasn't yet made the decision or it is unwise to tell us? is there a reason why we don't know what the troop withdrawal is going to be? you be the wrong person to ask, but he won't talk to me >> we are nearing the end of the year we all-american troops are supposed to be out. we are getting close to two months away. three months away. >> greta: do you think he has decided and -- he -- >> he has to congress there has to be funding or no funding or whatever it is. for a long time the iraqis have been willing to sit down and negotiate this number. each time there has been a failure of the administration to come up with
we would be putting americans in harm's way, as we did in beirut. as we did in somalia.and we have other times in our history. it is not enough. we need 10 to 13,000 troops on the border between kurdistan and iraq. it is very dangerous for technical and intelligence capabilities and help with their air force. no military person has recommended a low number such as 3,000. >> greta: when do we hear? we read in the media 3,000. is it the president doesn't yet -- hasn't yet made the decision...
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Sep 17, 2011
09/11
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CNNW
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. >> i remember your book, from beirut to jerusalem. >> other than the broad -- this upsurge which isple taking responsibility for their own lives. my bottom line in the middle east, wolf, are stability has left the building. approximate you're looking for stability, it's left the building. the question is what kind of instability will we have? is it going to have a positive slope, head toward a south africa transition, indonesia transition or god forbid, pakistan situation. i don't know. >>> tom friedman of the new york times. thousands of people fleeing deadly flooding, hotshots are coming up next. pictures worth a thousand words. it feels like help is never far away. it feels like you're protected against life's little mishaps. it feels like you'll make it home. that's what it feels like to be a member. what's vanishing deductible all about ? guys, it's demonstration time. let's blow carl's mind. okay, let's say i'm your insurance deductible. every year you don't have an accident, $100 vanishes. the next year, another $100. where am i going, carl ? the next year... that was weird.
. >> i remember your book, from beirut to jerusalem. >> other than the broad -- this upsurge which isple taking responsibility for their own lives. my bottom line in the middle east, wolf, are stability has left the building. approximate you're looking for stability, it's left the building. the question is what kind of instability will we have? is it going to have a positive slope, head toward a south africa transition, indonesia transition or god forbid, pakistan situation. i don't...
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Sep 2, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN2
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normally we don't respond until we think of the towers for the beirut bombing. we know who did that and we know which state was behind and we took no overt military action against them. the same thing is going to happen. the president will have to decide do i want to pick a fight this week to my to busy with all my other war? how we deal with it? >> doing is sort of secret attack back -- but i'm wondering the example here because nobody has been able to say with certainty so what you do in that circumstance? >> i would like to leave those questions to catherine. >> so you are asking if it is the natural vision problem. >> what do you do, say that there is something that has been deemed to be an armed attack where the self-defense, some self-defense of action is justified whether this covert or overt. what do you do when you can't pinpoint? >> i was actually going with the net itself which is a legitimate self-defense move. the question as relevant in terms of retribution, but he would have to know the facts of what your target was and whether in taking those act
normally we don't respond until we think of the towers for the beirut bombing. we know who did that and we know which state was behind and we took no overt military action against them. the same thing is going to happen. the president will have to decide do i want to pick a fight this week to my to busy with all my other war? how we deal with it? >> doing is sort of secret attack back -- but i'm wondering the example here because nobody has been able to say with certainty so what you do...
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Sep 27, 2011
09/11
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KRCB
tv
eye 121
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booted out from cairo, booted out from beirut. i'm saying the palestinians can't turn back the clock 64 years. >> rose: so you're not willing to take them back. >> of course not. >> rose: so what's the arrangement you think will be acceptable on refugees? >> what's fair. >> rose: what's fair? >> what's fair is that the arab countries in 1948 after the u.n. partition resolutionnvade with us five arab armies. they call on their brethren to leave the... the palestinians to leave the land because it will take three day to wipe out the embryonic jewish state and then they can com back and take the spoils. that's how the refugees left-- the majority of them left. at the same... right after... it didn't work out that way. we didn't lose, we refused to die. but the aftermath of the same war, about an equal number of jewish refugees were kicked out from arab lands. we had abo 700,000 arab refugees leaving in 1948 and about 800,000 jews expelled from arab lands. in tiny israel one tenth of one percent of the arab countries without the oil w
booted out from cairo, booted out from beirut. i'm saying the palestinians can't turn back the clock 64 years. >> rose: so you're not willing to take them back. >> of course not. >> rose: so what's the arrangement you think will be acceptable on refugees? >> what's fair. >> rose: what's fair? >> what's fair is that the arab countries in 1948 after the u.n. partition resolutionnvade with us five arab armies. they call on their brethren to leave the... the...
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Sep 10, 2011
09/11
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FOXNEWSW
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. >> usually when we get fox it's bits and pieces, somebody in beirut or cairo and was passed on to somebodyany. now we are laid out, first time i've ever seen a specific plot laid out which is very good intelligence or it's totally wrong. there is no room for any middle ground here. >> julie: commemorative ceremonies are taking place around the region and across the river and hudson river in jersey city, liberty state park they unveiled a memorial honoring the over 700 victims who pr issued on 9/11 from jersey. the two footprints where the world twin towers once stood. here any moment they will be unveiling a massive american flag hanging overhead. it's been quite interesting to watch the preparations underway. we've actually heard choir singing i don't know if you can hear that. but that is a choir singing on a loud speaker and they've been testing the intercom system all day long. i'm going stop talking to see if you can hear it. you can watch as the american flag is slowly being draped by men standing up above us. let's just look and listen. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> gregg: truly a wonderful mo
. >> usually when we get fox it's bits and pieces, somebody in beirut or cairo and was passed on to somebodyany. now we are laid out, first time i've ever seen a specific plot laid out which is very good intelligence or it's totally wrong. there is no room for any middle ground here. >> julie: commemorative ceremonies are taking place around the region and across the river and hudson river in jersey city, liberty state park they unveiled a memorial honoring the over 700 victims who...
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Sep 16, 2011
09/11
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CNNW
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. >> all of us remember your book "from beirut to jerusalem." >> no positive trends other than the broad own lives but my bottom line in the middle east right now, the arab world, stability has left the building, okay? if you're looking for stability, it's left the building. question is what kind of instability are we going to have? is it going to have a positive slope, head towards a south africa transition, indonesia transition or head toward a pakistan situation? i don't know. >> tom friedman, speak with me earlier. the book is entitled "that used to be us" it's already a best-seller. >> a last-minute reprieve for a death row inmate. >>> a satellite expected to crash to earth next week. more than a half ton of debris expected to fall over hundreds miles. >>> police officers, as you rarely see them, at least in uniform. dirty dancing cops, that's what they're being called. jeanne moos has the candid video. >> i was in new york city and my cell phone rang and it was andrew, our security guy, and he broke the news to me, that she died. in my mind amy winehouse foundation. she loved child
. >> all of us remember your book "from beirut to jerusalem." >> no positive trends other than the broad own lives but my bottom line in the middle east right now, the arab world, stability has left the building, okay? if you're looking for stability, it's left the building. question is what kind of instability are we going to have? is it going to have a positive slope, head towards a south africa transition, indonesia transition or head toward a pakistan situation? i...
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Sep 8, 2011
09/11
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CNNW
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. >> and adam pletz out of afghanistan, joining me now from beirut.ave a number of questions for, but my first one really is how did you come up with this idea? >> reporter: well, i was embedded with the marines in helmand in the same place that this story was made, and they -- they told me an anecdote about how they had been in one of the villages on the day when the moon was out during broad daylight, and they -- they told the villagers through their translator that america had put a man on the moon which the villagers found absolutely hysterical and called all their friends around and thought it was ridiculous that you could put a man on the moon so the marines left pretty much the laughing stock of that village, and so i got to thinking, well, if they don't know that, you know, that man has walked on the moon, what else aren't they aware of and it was in this context of afghanistan, the most obvious thing that springs to mind is 9/11, which we all think of as the root cause. >> that's stunning. you showed all the people you showed the images to on
. >> and adam pletz out of afghanistan, joining me now from beirut.ave a number of questions for, but my first one really is how did you come up with this idea? >> reporter: well, i was embedded with the marines in helmand in the same place that this story was made, and they -- they told me an anecdote about how they had been in one of the villages on the day when the moon was out during broad daylight, and they -- they told the villagers through their translator that america had...
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Sep 11, 2011
09/11
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FOXNEWSW
tv
eye 342
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an instinct that echos through the ages from pearl harbor to beirut, mogadishu to ground zero, flightife. who believed these horrible acts, these horrible acts of terror, directed against innocents, could buckle our knees, could bend our will, could begin to break us, and break our resolve. but they did not know what, instead, that same american instinct, that sent all of you into the breach, between the 4th and 5th corridors, call vgalvann entire new generation of patriots, the 9/11 generation. many of them were just kids on that bright september morning. but, like their grandparents, on december 7th, 1941, they courageously bore the burden history placed on their shoulders. and, as they came of age, they showed up. they showed up to fight for their country and they are still showing up. 2,800,000 of the 9/11 generation moved to join our military since the attacks on 9/11. to finish the war begun here that day. and they joined. they joined knowing that they were in all likelihood going to be deployed in harm's way. and, many cases, deployed multiple, multiple times. in afghanistan, a
an instinct that echos through the ages from pearl harbor to beirut, mogadishu to ground zero, flightife. who believed these horrible acts, these horrible acts of terror, directed against innocents, could buckle our knees, could bend our will, could begin to break us, and break our resolve. but they did not know what, instead, that same american instinct, that sent all of you into the breach, between the 4th and 5th corridors, call vgalvann entire new generation of patriots, the 9/11...
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Sep 11, 2011
09/11
by
CSPAN
tv
eye 163
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come to the fore in our darkest hours, an instinct that echoes through the ages from pearl harbor to beirutight here at the pentagon. those in this building that day knew what they were witnessing. it was a declaration of war, by stateless actors bent on changing our way of life, who believed these horrible acts of terror directed against innocents could buckle our means, could begin to break as and break are resolved. e. but they did not know us. instead, that same american instinct that sent all of you into the breach, galvanized an entire new generation of patriots, the 9/11 generation. many of them were just kids on that bright september morning. as they came of age, they showed up to fight for their country. they are still showing up. 2,800,000 of that 9/11 generation moved to join our military since the attacks on 9/11, to finish the war begun here that day. they joined knowing that they were in all likelihood going to be deployed in harm's way and, in many places, deployed multiple times in afghanistan, iraq, and other dangerous parts of the world. those of you admirals' who command
come to the fore in our darkest hours, an instinct that echoes through the ages from pearl harbor to beirutight here at the pentagon. those in this building that day knew what they were witnessing. it was a declaration of war, by stateless actors bent on changing our way of life, who believed these horrible acts of terror directed against innocents could buckle our means, could begin to break as and break are resolved. e. but they did not know us. instead, that same american instinct that sent...
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Sep 1, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN
tv
eye 101
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go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yemen. in 2000, we only believe will go after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true, during that time we were not focused at all. i concluded based on my own work and really being greatly affected by the report of the 9/11 commission that 9/11 was a preventable attacke. i believe if the federal government on 9/10 had been organized the way it is today, we would have prevented that attack, but since then, i think we have been quite broad and strategic and perhaps the most significant thing we have done -- in any war, intelligence is important. in this war, so when conventional where we are fighting an enemy that does not come at us in the uniform in tanks in uniforms and fighter planes and battleships. it comes at us from the s
go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yemen. in 2000, we only believe will go after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true, during that time we were not focused at all....
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175
Sep 4, 2011
09/11
by
CSPAN
tv
eye 175
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go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world -- homegrown attacks, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yemen. in 2000, we only believe will go after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true, during that time we were not focused at all. i concluded based on my own work and really being greatly affected by the report of the 9/11 commission that 9/11 was a preventable attack. i believe if the federal government on 9/10 had been organized the way it is today, we would have prevented that attack, but since then, i think we have been quite broad and strategic and perhaps the most significant thing we have done -- in any war, intelligence is important. in this war, so unconventional where we are fighting an enemy that does not come at us in the uniform in tanks in uniforms and fighter planes and ba
go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world -- homegrown attacks, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yemen. in 2000, we only believe will go after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true,...
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128
Sep 2, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN
tv
eye 128
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go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world -- homeown attacks, 1993 at the wor trade center with theruck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yem. in 2000, we only believe will go aer 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true, during that time we were not focused at all. i concluded based on my own work and really being greatly affected by the report of the 9/11 commission that 9/11 was a preventable attack. i believe if the federal government on 9/10 had been organized the way it is today, we would have prevented that attack, but since then, i think we have been quite broad and strategic and perhaps the most significant thing we have done -- in any war, intelligence is important. in this war, so unconventional where we are fighting an enemy that does not come at us in the uniform tanks in uniforms and fighter planes and baleships. itom
go back further if you go back to the hezbollah attacks inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut in 1983. and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane, but in terms of home broadcasts, 1993 at the world -- homeown attacks, 1993 at the wor trade center with theruck bomb, and, of course, abroad with attacks on embassies in africa and the u.s.'s coal in yem. in 2000, we only believe will go aer 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack, but it is true, during that...
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173
Sep 1, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN2
tv
eye 173
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you could go back further to the hezbollah attack inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut and, what was it, 1983? but, and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane. but really in terms of homegrown attacks, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb and abroad with the attacks on embassies in africa and the uss cole in yemen in 2000. we only really woke up after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack. it's true during that period we were not focused at all. long story short, i concluded based on my own work and being greatly affected by the report of the cain-hamilton, 9/11 commission that 9/11 was a preventable attack. i believe if the federal government on 9/10, and 11 had been organized the way it has been today we would have prevented that at tack. -- attack. i think since then we've been quite broad and strategic and i think the most significant thing we've done -- look, in any war intelligence is this important. in this war so unconventional where we're fighting an enemy that doesn't come at us on a battlefield in tanks and uniforms and fi
you could go back further to the hezbollah attack inspired by iran on the marine barracks in beirut and, what was it, 1983? but, and you could go back to lockerbie with americans on that plane. but really in terms of homegrown attacks, 1993 at the world trade center with the truck bomb and abroad with the attacks on embassies in africa and the uss cole in yemen in 2000. we only really woke up after 9/11 because it was such a monstrous attack. it's true during that period we were not focused at...
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294
Sep 24, 2011
09/11
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CSPAN2
tv
eye 294
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. >> host: you were born in beirut. how did you get to the united states? guest: my family immigrated with the war in lebanon and everything so i grew up in pennsylvania and went to school in pennsylvania. my first real job after graduate school was fbi stationed in new york. i moved to new york in 1997 and continued to live in new york throughout my fbi career and after my fbi career i still live in new york. >> host: what years did you serve? >> guest: 1997-2005. >> host: what did you work on? >> guest: i focused on terrorism. discussed many of the missions are was involved in and cases that i worked on in the book. the focus of the great majority of my career was bin laden and al qaeda. >> host: do you speak arabic? >> guest: yes. >> host: where were you on 9/11? >> guest: i was not in the united states. i was working on investigating the uss cole attack in yemen. we received a phone call from headquarters asking myself and my partner to stay in yemen and follow up on some leads concerning 9/11. that was september 12th. i was really shocked. why do we ne
. >> host: you were born in beirut. how did you get to the united states? guest: my family immigrated with the war in lebanon and everything so i grew up in pennsylvania and went to school in pennsylvania. my first real job after graduate school was fbi stationed in new york. i moved to new york in 1997 and continued to live in new york throughout my fbi career and after my fbi career i still live in new york. >> host: what years did you serve? >> guest: 1997-2005. >>...