we had a camera on ben bishop, the guy that played ivan, throughout the virtual process.ng on what it is it is a sometimes quicker and easier and more creative and more — you get better results by hand doing it. in terms of bringing that to screen, that performance to screen, how we do it is a hell of a lot of reference gathering. lots of dogs, lots of gorillas to kind of tap into what makes an animalan animal and knowing its nuances, knowing its quirks and its ear flicks and its little idiosyncrasies that they do. this was a movie that the animals had to be completely photorealistic. yet at the same time, are we pushing it far enough, is there enough pathos, or humour, or sadness in those expressions, should we push it a little bit more or have we pushed it too far? and we're sort of slipping into uncanny valley where you start to go, "oh, no, that's not a real animal, they don't do that, they wouldn't do that." so that's a very difficult balance. and that was something that we fought with on every shot. it was a discussion that went from the heads of the studio all the

bishop ben barber, ben coming up. thank you both very much. really appreciate you both. up next on "the reidout," america's reckoning on police reform, and why it is so hard to get rid of bad cops. you're going want to hear these stories in our next break. >>> plus, attorney general merrick garland, as i mentioned, announced the investigation at the louisville police department following the killing of breonna taylor. and george wallace became a conservative star with talk of law and order, which really meant racism and civil rights violations. well, now a current southern governor is mimicking george wallace, and he is the absolute worst. "the reidout" after this. reidos for cash flow that lasts, even when you're not working, so you can go from saving... to living. ♪ let's go ♪ >>> last week's guilty verdict in the murder trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin was heralded by many as a step in the right direction for racial justice. and while chauvin will now face the consequences for the brutal killing of george floyd, this was not the first time that