here to moderate, a conversation with ben buchanan the genius is courtney kube, a correspondent covering national security and the military and has spent a lot of time reporting on the intelligence and digital issues we are discussing today, especially election interference. there is election interference and it means a lot to us that courtney we come here and take time from the endless conversation about our ongoing primary election. thank you so much and over to you, enjoy, everybody. >> thank you. hopefully we will all learn a bit, but one thing, i got an early copy of this, one of the few people who have the luxury of being able to read "the hacker and the state: cyber attacks and the new normal of geopolitics" -- "the hacker and the state: cyber attacks and the new normal of geopolitics". since most people haven't had a chance to read it. can you give an overview? what is the thesis of the book? >> guest: too often we talk about hacking between nations as if it was hypothetical like nuclear war, something off in the distance. cyber pearl harbor or cyber 9/11 and the thesis of this b

>>> georgetown university's ben buchanan on the normalizing of cyber warfare as a geopolitical tool. his book is the hacker and the state. >> good morning, everyone. more people are expected to arrive, but i think i saw michael waller, there he is in the back now. he's becoming shy. so is the wilson center's best supporter on the planet and we are giving him a name tag. but welcome. i'm jane harman, president and ceo of the wilson center. it's the best job on the planet because i ge get to talk to geniuses every single day. one of them because and in my script but i'm going to call her out is megan came some of you may not know her but she runs a science technology and innovation program and is responsible for the schools we have on friday to teach the staff about cyber and artificial intelligence and today's genius would be ben buchanan is our go to guy when we teach those and been trying to teach me for a while. i think that i've been a repeater at all times. i am getting i getting is that n analog brain and i thank them for his patience. he is a global fellow and he will discuss h

. >>> georgetown university's ben buchanan on the normalizing of cyber warfare as a geopolitical tool. his book is the hacker and the state. >> good morning, everyone. more people are expected to arrive, but i think i saw michael waller, there he is in the back now. he's becoming shy. so is the wilson center's best supporter on the planet and we are giving him a name tag. but welcome. i'm jane harman, president and ceo of the wilson center. it's the best job on the planet because i ge get to talk to geniuses every

teach capitol hill staff about cyber and artificial intelligence and today's genius, that would be ben buchanan, is there go to guy when we teach them both schools and he's been trying to teach me for while. i think i've been the repeater of all time at some of those schools. i'm kind of getting it that i haven't analog rain and i thank him for his patients. ben is a global fellow and he will discuss his latest book right now called sub -- "the hacker and the state." spoiler alert hackers to change the world. how? been maxis cyber operations are an fellow glee part of international relations in the gap between united states and other countries has narrowed considerably. get that folks, narrowed considerably pared from north korea's efforts to hack for cash million dollars worth against the bank of thank england -- to russia's maligned activity for misinformation to electric lockouts in ukraine there is plenty to talk about. understanding how cyber tools are used and abused is his specialty and also taking care of analog brain logs. he's a marshall scholar and received his ph.d. from kings colle

and today's genius, that would be ben buchanan, is our go to guy when we teach some of those schools and has been trying to teach me for a while. i think i've been the repeater of all time at some of those schools. i'm kind of getting get but i have an analog brain and i think him for his patients. he is a global fellow and he will discuss his latest book right now called "the hacker and the state."le spoiler alert, hackers have changed the world. how? ben says quote cyber operations are now indelibly part of international relations and the gap between the united statesf and other countries has narrowed considerably. get that folks? narrowed considerably. from north korea's efforts to hacks for cash, $1 million worth, against the bank of bangladesh to russia's maligned activity from disinformation to electric blackouts in ukraine, there is plenty to talk about. understanding how cyber tools are used and abused is ben's specialty. also taking care of analog brain grandmas. i think i will give him credit for that. he was a marshall scholar who seek his phd from king's college in london