>> yeah, our colleague ben collins has been deep in a couple of different places on social media accounts. we have a whole team dedicated to that here. the initial indications from ben's reporting, and our reporting, and what we are hearing from people who've been briefed on this investigation. is of is a lot of things that i think people are finding highly unusual. there is some youtube videos that seem to have some sort of ties is not the right word, but storm sort of a link to mass shootings that this person may have had a significant interest in mass shootings of some type, certainly with violence, of shooting at the people perhaps shooting themselves. i think violence is the key kind of underscore. but it is something that we need to do a little bit more reporting on. and of course, this person hasn't been charged with it. but that appears to be the theme of this -- but we've seen at this stage. >> tom winter, as always, thank you so much for all of the information you bring to us on this breaking news story. nbc news national investigative unit correspondent. thank you so much tom w

ben collins, thank you so much.line footprint there of the person of interest. appreciate that. we will talk to you a little bit later if we can. jim, again, as i was mentioning as well, harry's gonna be with us. we're gonna take a short break here on the breaking news story. again, the person of interest taken into custody about one hour ago. two hours ago now. and we are now trying to determine what are the next steps. we may hear charges coming down the next 12 hours, according to harry litman. we're gonna get to that, right after a short break, right here on msnbc. right right after a short break, right and vanguard retirement tools and advice can help you get there. that's the value of ownership. can help you get there. finding my way forward with node-positive breast cancer felt overwhelming at times. but i never just found my way, i made it. so when i finished active therapy, i kept moving forward and did everything i could to protect myself from recurrence. verzenio is the first treatment in over 15 years on

joining us now with those details, senior reporter for nbc news, ben collins. ough this man's online history. what'd you find? >> yeah, bobby crimo was, on the internet, known as a wake, a rapper on the internet. this wasn't a small time kind of thing. usually, where you see these mass killers, they sort of appear in the public for the first time at their mass killing. that was not the case with this killer. he had music videos where he graphically depicted school shootings and being in shootouts with the cops. there were cartoons of him being in shootouts with the cops. he had a spotify account with tens of thousands of plays between that and youtube. he had his own discord server, which is basically like a message board or chat group, where people in that server talked about political nihilism, about political murder and things like that. this man was part of a much larger community that ties back to places like 4chan that are obsessed with mass death and nihilism in general, and the idea that the only way out of life in general, if you're a young man, is this

also joining us is nbc news senior reporter ben collins. pick up on that, on what you know about him from the internet and your study. >> reporter: yeah, he is a student of a lot of mass murder. that's what this person was. it's very clear this is over a long period of time. this is a much dumber conclusion to come to at the number 47, but it is possibly true, there is a video game called hit man. the primary character in that is agent 47. it's a guy who was a sniper from a rooftop. that's the kind of culture he was in on the internet. he was deeply into the culture of glorifying mass murder. also, in these spaces they talk about kill counts in the way you would talk about kill counts in a video game. that's the sort of spaces he was in. in january he put out a music video under this rapper name awake, where he was dropping -- literally physically dropping bullets inside a classroom that he had presumably shot up in this music video. there's a graphic cartoon depiction of him getting in a shootout with the police afterwards. this was a guy

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shaq brewster in highland park is with us, nbc's ben collins, nbc's ken dilanian. let me recap what i heard. he is 21, as we know. he will be 22 in september. he is a resident of highwood. he was dressed in women's cloenling to disguise his identity so he could blend in with the crowd. he left the rifle on the rooftop. accessed that through a fire escape ladder. he purchased the rifle legally. had another rifle in his car and had other weapons as well. borrowed his mother's vehicle. his mother lives in the area, in the highland park area. went to his mother's, walked to his mother's and borrowed her car. they don't know or would not say whether the mother was aware of what he had done, did not think so. he was apprehended without injuries to any police officers. more than 30 people were injured, not including, of course, the six who are dead. necessary custody. no indication anyone else was involved in the attack. appears to be acting by himself. there had been, ken, previous law enforcement contact. some police had identified him from knowing him from photos. the

our ben collins is joining us in a minute. >>> as the committee gets ready to make its case that donald trump did nothing while the capitol was under attack, we're going one on one with someone who fought to defend it that day. capitol police officer harry dunne joins us live next. ught tt day. capitol police officer harry capitol police officer harry dunne joins us have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? live next that can yeah, across all we got that... it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] the day of the heart attack, i was scared. so you can do more incredible things. i didn't know what to do. learning that my daughter had a heart attack really shook me. it brings home how important it is to hold on to the people we love and the things that matter to us. aspirin helps reduce the chance of another heart attack by 31%. your heart isn't just yours. aspirin is not appropriate for everyone, so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. subway's drafting 12

with us tonight, nbc news senior reporter ben collins. s this information, and extremism on the internet. ben, here we are again, you have been reporting on this nonstop. what is the latest? >> yeah, there is a new batch of youtube videos that hatched. the shooter is a status shot of the parade route that he eventually went out shooting. this is from months ago on a youtube account that was later archived on the internet. everything that we found is a manifesto that is not even a manifesto, it is a bunch of numbers that he wanted people to decrypt, but we are not going to do that for obvious reasons. this guy had been planning this, that is why we are telling you this. this guy had been plenty for this long. as an amazon e-book in february, this guy really wanted to be known as a mass shooter in the mass shooter culture that exists in the internet where he thought he had a community, basically. >> in the burgeoning mass shooter culture. the fact that that is even a thing, is chilling. why has that community, the dark web said since this ha

i know our colleague ben collins reported on the online activity of the suspect and suggested he wanted a shootout at the end so it's an idea of the three different areas we saw police activity yesterday and he used the chaos that he used by the shooting. he walked off amid the crowd when disguise. perhaps a wig or long hair and women's clothing and escape after the shooting. information we learned. he is not 22. he is 21 year old. a clarification from yesterday. a lot of information that will be relevant. >> lin, i should say we worked together in columbine and covered an awful lot of stuff then and now that's like this. tell me as somebody whose family lives just blocks away and as someone who is decades into reporting, what sticks out to you right now? >> so i started reporting from a distance on gun violence with the 1999 columbine slayings but always from a distance. i said this at the end of my column today this is the first time i write about killing that i was at. and that does come home. one thing i want to point out that i think is a takeaway and this happened often with the p

with us tonight, nbc news senior reporter ben collins. covers disinformation and extremism on the internet. and ben, i was thinking of you when i was watching him. like, watching someone in realtime, really talk about online radicalization. but i was also thinking, last night, i interviewed alex holder. that's the guy behind the trump documentary. and he said, a couple of months after the all the election, it was down at mar-a-lago, trump was furious, he was angry. and he asked him, oh, is it because he lost? and he said, no. it's because he doesn't have access to social media anymore. talk to us about the power and influence one can have on social media, and the ability to radicalize people. >> yeah, we've heard a lot of different stories about how people ended up at the capitol. but really, we keep hearing the same version of the same one, right? a guy on social media, a woman on social media, who realized that this was gonna be the last hurrah. they realized, the guy they've been following who they look to almost like a deity, like for

. >> joining me from capitol hill is nbc news correspondent ali vitali and senior reporter ben collins and peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york city. ali, marshaling the mob, give us a rundown of what we can expect tomorrow. >> that's the focus for congressman raskin and stephanie murphy, the two lawmakers expected to be leading this hearing tomorrow. their focus is not just on extremist groups. that's something ben knows well and we'll hear details tomorrow from people like the former spokeperson for the oath keepers as they talk about the way those organizations recruit but of course the central focus for this committee has always been tying all of these seemingly disparate threads and theories back to the man at the center of all of it, former president donald trump. that's something they've saved repeatedly on the sunday shows, both raskin and murphy that things like trump tweet on december 19th, telling people to be there and be wild on january 6th, that those were things that murphy called a siren call, not just to extremist groups but to everyone else wh

. >> joining me now in person, ben collins nbc senior news reporter and the guy that i would like i text have you on set. so when trump's sends out this tweet, this december 19 it's gonna be wild tweet, the response was immediate. let me read some of them. why don't we just kill? them every last democrat down to the last man woman and child? the average democrat it is a traitor. they do not collection. fraud the punishment for treason's death. it's time for the day of the rope that's the only solution. >> they actually brought a rope. let me bring this clear. and white nationalist literature, day the rope is the day that everything changes. they killed journalists, they go down the list, they kill everybody they think would be attributed to all the harms that have been done since nazi germany, that's what day of the rope is. that's what they were planning on and some of those faces. in those days is, this is five days before christmas. people are naturally not like this in this mood right now. it was incredibly variant late violent. it was talked about today as well. it was all plant. >>

with me now is ben collins. he's a senior reporter for nbc news.s on this byline, i knew that i needed to speak with both of you. ben, i want you to talk to us about how this study adds to our understanding of exactly would happen on january 6th. >> alicia, for most people like, this of course trump in instigated this thing. and foreign media, and a lot of this country that is not how it is viewed. it's important to get this down for the historical record. it's important to use, if you're going to prosecute the former president, the top two things that were cited by people who stormed the capitol that day, in their own court documents, in their own charging documents, by the way, this is not hearsay, it's not guessing. it's with the study looked into, where donald trump himself expressly told them to be there in their, warrants or the election was stolen. donald trump told us to be there to try to do something about it, basically. number three was civil war secession. deep down the list, i was there. it's almost the same exact number of people who

ben collins joins us, who covers extremism on the internet.ocial media, we saw this laid out, was instrumental in spreading the messages. what are we seeing online now? >> those same forms that helped organize these things, the one that came up in the hearing yesterday, 4chan, are still around. they don't talk about the hearings. you jesse culture war issues about hunter biden and pronouns and transgender rights. they are fully moved on from donald from. what they will do, if they feel there is a new main character they can plug in there, like cassidy hutchinson, someone they believe to be a soft target to attack on the internet, they will attack them and try to make the whole thing look like a sham. but in terms of actually listening to what is going on here, that is not something that is happening in these forums. >> do they still feel that democracy was stolen from them? we think of the internet as this murky place where extremists can hide and talk to each other. but over the july 4 weekend, we saw a group called the patriot front marching

ali vitali is on capitol hill, and ben collins, who covers extremism.ollone was subpoenaed, what is the commit company going to want to learn from him. >> now we know that subpoena has been extended, and we expect a transcribed and videotaped deposition to happen on friday, ultimately allowing the committee to excel a miredial of questions. we learned this, the idea that cipollone was in many of these rooms with conversations, and then, of course, his former chief of staff mark meadows, all of these were different pockets parts of various hearings in the past. now what his taped deposition will allow them to do is use this information going forward. the idea has always been, anyone who has agreed to go before the committee, even if not appearing as a technical witness in the hearing room, is effectively a witness anyway, because they are able to use parts of the video deposition. they have masterfully wove it into all these hearings. now, as we head to another week where we expect more hearings, you wonder if this video will be part of what we start to

joining me now is nbc news senior reporter ben collins, jake sherman and former u.s. attorney and michigan law professor liz mcquaid. donald trump personally called a witness. are we getting anything more on who that person might be? was there any indication they knew what trump might say if that call was answered? >> so we are hot on the trail here, katy, to find out who this witness was. we've been asking all of our sources and it appears to be a relatively small circle of people who know who this witness was. now, bennie thompson, the chair of the january 6th committee told us last night he does not anticipate this person will be testifying. so that just leaves a whole pile of possibilities given that we know many people are helping behind the scenes and only a few people, the tip of the iceberg so to speak, are actually testifying publicly. it could be one of dozens and dozens of people and mr. thompson was asked last night whether they knew what the president was calling to say and they said they just turned this information over to the justice department, they'v

and with me now is nbc news senior reporter ben collins, jill wine-banks and rosa brooks, author of "tangled up in blue, policing the american city." thank you all for being here. jill wine-banks i understand you are from not far away from this catastrophe that took place in illinois. they have released the names of the victims. i'll put their names up. your thoughts on just this constant state of terror and fear that has stalked your community now and is simply stalking all of us. >> as everybody in the country feels, it really hurts when it hits so close to home. i know people who were shot. i know one person who died. i shouldn't say i actually know her, but friends of mine are friends of hers. she was a member of their temple. and it is very distressing to see this. i know someone who saved a child who was wandering bloody, and it turned out he was taken away from them by his grandparents because his father was killed in the shooting. and it's time to say that no one in america needs an assault weapon. it's something the military needs. it is not something that people need. and wh

white revolution is the only solution, and they literally brought a rope which we now know through ben collinseat journalism that's what day -- that was sort of an indication of day of the rope. donald trump did all of that. donald trump caused those people to say those things and post those things, not mark meadows so how could it be that mark meadows becomes the fall guy because everything he did was done for the president, donald trump? how could mark meadows be the fall guy when all that i just showed you was trump's doing? >> mark meadows can only become the fall guy if the department of justice lets him become the fall guy. should he be charged for his crimes, absolutely, but does that mean the department of justice should stop at mark meadows? absolutely not. donald trump is the hub, of the hub and spoke conspiracy that i've been talking about, including on your show for a very long time. donald trump is the hub for which all of these criminal spokes raidated. you know, we heard about this battle royal in the oval office with team normal. the folks that passed for adult in the trump adm

. >> we've been hearing some reporting this morning on our show from ben collins and others about the internet history of this suspect, this 22-year-old suspect. very violent imagery as you pointed out. big picture here, what role does law enforcement believe it should play or that it does play in some cases or just communities in fact in tracking this stuff so that the red flags could go up much earlier than they have been. >> not law enforcement for sure, because obviously they can't track -- number one to-t would be a physical impossibility to keep track of all sorts of videos like this. he was, as i think maybe you discussed earlier today, somebody who was sort of a rapper. he a presentation on youtube. and that is where he posted some of the very disturbing videos. but the people who have studied these mass shootings in the past, including the secret service, they did a report every year on mass shootings and it is the same theme year after year. that people give off warning signs. they don't just suddenly snap. and that it is up to people in the community to follow up on that. s

ben collins of nbc news made an interesting point when talking about these loners he said, you cannotcall them loners anymore. they have a total community online and they are egging each other on. he was very present there as a rapper rapping about mass killings. if you can talk about how he got his gun legally and the fact he was -- the local police not focusing on him and may well go to the issue of the media was trying to decide whether to call this a terror attack, no, he clearly wasn't muslim, so they veered away from that. but this idea of this being a sell online? >> oklahoma city. that is this. this country has a race proem and white males are treated differently than every buddy else. -- everybody else. even though he was grown, i cannot understand that his parents did not see some of this, too. we have a problem that needs to be solved -- amy: even though -- >> it is wrapped with racism and bigotry and t me tell you this, he was arrested without incident. arrested without incident. compare that to jayland walker, which i know we're going into. amy: we are going to go to brea

the people who were just screaming, we just found from ben collins, it's like a thing - day of the rope - in far right-wing circles. who understood, means literally bring a rope? i mean, i want to know who donald trump talk to, after midnight? because you know, he sets up in just cost people -- >> we are gonna get to some of that, because we do get this new part of the timeline, right? so in part of that january 6th, as they said, the next hearing, like lawrence was just describing, is gonna be minute by minute on january 6. and today, starting december, mid december, when the electors cast their votes. and so, it was over. and trump was told by an amazing array of people, including we're about to see, members of his family, that it was over. and then, he decided he needed this plan b. so that is next. today's hearing also revealed the extent to its people in trump's orbit including his family, knew that it was over in mid december, before he started on this other course. that's all ahead. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it makes me mad because, i was hanging on every word he was saying. everyth

ben collins joins me now. first of all, haven't seen you in several years. it's good to see you. a meme that he sent out because he's elon musk and that's how it goes. he references bots and spam accounts. what is going on here? >> so let's back up to how elon processes twitter as a rich person. as the richest person, actually. >> thee richest person. >> he lass lots of people impersonating him on twitter. there are a lot more of those bots than regular people. thaps not true. when twitter measures users, they measure daily active users. those bots don't fall into that category. but in elon's brain, he sees the lots of people impersonating him. so when he bought the company, he was like i'm going to get rid of these things he tried to get data after the fact. he signed a binding agreement saying i'm going to buy this company for $54.20 a share. now he's trying to back out of that. you can't really do that. you're supposed to do due diligence before you buy. >> what options does twitter have in? >> twitter is going to posture that we want you to buy this incredibly marked bought t

don't really pay attention to us unless they have to. >> all right mary mccord thank you so, much ben collinsgreat to see you still emotionally there while you are on this beat. thank you for joining us, i appreciate it. all right still ahead, numerous reports of civilian deaths in ukraine. a recent must -- killed nearly two dozen ukrainians. including three children under the age of ten. we will take you to the scene next. e age of ten e age of ten we ♪ ♪ will take youn next this is the moment. for a treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo — fda approved. 100% steroid free. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and cibinqo helps provide clearer skin and less itch. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. do not take with medicines that prevent blood clots. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, lung, s

ben collins was talking about the middle men. it was easy to link them back.essarily back to donald trump. is that necessary link to make even though we have heard the consequences of donald trump's own words. we heard it as a call in response. it's what the committee is arguing. does there need to be -- does that dotted line need to become a straight line? >> it depends on your goal. so it you're talking about criminal culpability, less so. this is one of the hard things about proving criminal culpability when you're aiming at someone at the very top of a large and complex organization. there's lots of folks in between. and so this is always the challenge for prosecutors. you have identified it perfectly. and whether or not we get there, we shall see. >> it was really extraordinary examination by "the new york times." they showed elements of oath keepers and proud boys in the attack on the capitol, and specific units going and distracting, attacking particular police at the barriers and then moving on. and all kinds of decoy attack moves. this was very struct

joining us now, ben collins and betsy woodruff swann. so they're hanging on his words.e saying, he didn't tell us not to touch lawmakers. that's scary. the jarring thing the outtakes on january 7th of what he knew not to say, donald trump. first of all, ivanka trump, who donald trump said was checked out by this point, was coaching him through it, but he just refused to say basic things, like the word "yesterday," for example, because he didn't want to admit there was an attack yesterday. >> i wonder if it's instinctual for him, not unconscious, or instinctual, the way he choose as his words. >> i think there's been a years-long campaign to make this man look like he doesn't know how to choose his words. he knows exactly what he's doing in these precise moments with his followers. if he doesn't want to anger the people in the furthest parts of the extremist part of his base. that's what was happening on january 7th and that's what was happening on january 6th, too. he was putting out communications saying, exactly who you shouldn't touch. you can't be the law and order

i think our colleague ben collins has done tremendous work today pointing out the extremist nature of the postings that have been put out there by this individual, and it's something i think we really need to pay a lot of attention to because this goes far beyond very simple ideologies, and it is not as fringe as i think all of us hope that it is. it's something that i think we're going to have to pay attention to. there's just not enough cops, not enough agents to look at all this material day-to-day. again, removing the constitutional component that pete referenced. >> but pete, to your broader point, there are people that look at violence porn, whether it's of the isis variety or just run-of-the-mill domestic violent extremism in every country on the planet. we're the only country where i think all five of us have together had conversations about massacre at an elementary school, a massacre at a grocery store in buffalo, and regular mass shootings every single week, and at the root of that is the access to weapons of war. i wonder what you think about tom's commentary about what co