ben crump or someone like him.in the case, maybe for some good reasons to begin with. if he believed there was something being swept under the rug, get into it. i'm very okay with that. >> reporter: but you didn't say it that way. you made it sound like if not for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free at this time. >> that's correct. i think it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. and that they victimized him, they complain about trayvon martin being victimized. george zimmerman was victimized by a publicity campaign to smear him, call him a racist when he wasn't and call him a murderer when he wasn't. >> reporter: so angela cory and the governor and all of those that had a hand in bringing about this prosecution, they were all manipulated by ben crump? >> i don't know that it was ben crump doing all that manipulations. i'm very surprised that the prosecution team decided not to take this case to a grand jury when one was sitting and ready to take on the case, and deter

ben crump or someone like him.en crump not got involved in the case, maybe for some good reasons to begin with. if he believed there was something being swept under the rug, then get on into it. i'm very okay with that. >> reporter: but you didn't say it that way. you made it sound like if not for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free at this time. and we would not be in a trial. >> that's correct. i think it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. and that they victimized him, they complain about trayvon martin being victimized. george zimmerman was victimized by a publicity campaign to smear him, call him a racist when he wasn't and call him a murderer when he wasn't. >> reporter: so angela cory and the governor and all of those that had a hand in bringing about this prosecution, they were all manipulated by ben crump? >> i don't know that it was ben crump doing all that manipulations. i'm very surprised that the prosecution team decided not to take this case to a grand

>> no, ben crump or someone like him because had ben crump not gotten involved in the case, maybe for some good reasons to begin with. if he believed there was something here swept under the rug, get on into it. i'm very okay with that. >> but you didn't quite say it that way. you made it sound like if it wasn't for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free and we wouldn't be in a trial. >> that the correc i think it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman and they victimized him and complain about trayvon martin being victimized, george zimmerman was victimized to smear him and call him a racist and murderer when he wasn't. >> ben crump, your reaction to that? >> well, piers, you know, they seem to forget that trayvon martin was a dead unarmed kid on the ground who his client profiled, followed, pursued, and shot in the heart. the only thing that brought us into the matter is when they told trayvon's father that they were not going to arrest the killer of his unarmed son, who only had a bag of skittles and a can of iced tea walking home from the

. >> you mentioned ben crump. do you think george zimmerman would have even been charged had ben crump not been involved? >> no. if ben crump had not gotten involved in the case, if he believed there was something that was being swept under the rug, then get into it. i'm very okay with that. >> but you didn't say it that way. you made it sound like if not for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free at this time and we would not be in a trial. >> that's correct. i think it was a made-up story that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. they complained about trayvon martin being victimized, george zimmerman was victimized by a campaign to smear him, to call him a racist when he wasn't, and a murderer when he wasn't. >> so all those people who had a hand in bringing about this prosecution, they were all manipulated by ben crump? >> i don't know if it was ben crump doing all that manipulation, but i'm very surprised the prosecution team decided not to take this case to a grand jury when one was sitting and impanel

do you believe at the time that -- >> no, not at all. >> you or your client or you and ben crump werentroduce race as an element in this? >> let me say, we don't know george zimmerman and the fact i heard ben say today when asked that same question, we don't -- we could never call that man a racist. now we believe this case in it's totality has a racial under tone to it. so that's a huge difference, anderson. >> i want to play something that you said back in march of last year for our viewers. >> whether or not trayvon was a perfect student is irrelevant to whether zimmerman's conduct that night was justified. trayvon was a kid. he was another unarmed black boy whose life was lost because of unfounded stereo types suspicions and fears. >> during the trial, the idea of racial profiling was. >>> wasn't talked about. do you think that -- that there is an under pinning of race throughout this that wasn't brought into the trial? >> no, what he was charged with, anderson is very important, criminal profiling, and i think we heard it time and time again from the beginning of this case where

>> no, ben crump or someone like him because had ben crump not gotten involved in the case, maybe for some good reasons to begin with. if he believed there was something here swept under the rug, get on into it. i'm very okay with that. >> but you didn't quite say it that way. you made it sound like if it wasn't for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free and we wouldn't be in a trial. >> that the correct. i think it was a madeup story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman and they victimized him and complain about trayvon martin being victimized, george zimmerman was victimized to smear him and call him a racist and murderer when he wasn't. >> ben crump, your reaction to that? >> well, piers, you know, they seem to forget that trayvon martin was a dead unarmed kid on the ground who his client profiled, followed, pursued, and shot in the heart. the only thing that brought us into the matter is when they told trayvon's father that they were not going to arrest the killer of his unarmed son, who only had a bag of skittles and a can of iced tea walking home from the

do you believe at the time that -- >> no, not at all. >> you or your client or you and ben crump wereing to introduce race as an element in this? >> let me say, we don't know george zimmerman and the fact i heard ben say today when asked that same question, we don't -- we could never call that man a racist. now we believe this case in it's totality has a racial under tone to it. so that's a huge difference, anderson. >> i want to play something that you said back in march of last year for our viewers. >> whether or not trayvon was a perfect student is irrelevant to whether zimmerman's conduct that night was justified. trayvon was a kid. he was another unarmed black boy whose life was lost because of unfounded stereo types suspicions and fears. >> during the trial, the idea of racial profiling was. >>> wasn't talked about. do you think that -- that there is an under pinning of race throughout this that wasn't brought into the trial? >> no, what he was charged with, anderson is very important, criminal profiling, and i think we heard it time and time again from the beginning of this cas

. >> you didn't listen to ben crump on the 27th or 28th? he wasn't your attorney on that day? >>, he wasn't. >> later did you instruct him to say police lied when they said you had said no about hearing your son's voice? did you instruct your lawyer to say that? >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> you never instructed ben crump to say the police had lied about that? >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> did you instruct your lawyer to say that the audio has since been cleared up and now you can hear it better? >> no, i didn't. >> it's obviously difficult as i said before, but where does this take us. accusing a man who within 48 hours of his son being killed is clearly in a lot of distress, clearly grieving intensely and according to him simply said, i don't know. is it really effective for you and the defense to go after a man in that position? >> i think you have to be very careful and very sensitive to the loss that a grieving valley is going through. having said that, not only do we have the two officers who were there, there was two other officers

do you believe at the time that -- that you and ben crump were trying to introduce race as an elementn this? >> well, let me say this. we don't know george zimmerman, and, you know, in fact i heard ben say today, let me ask that same question. we could never call that man a racist. now we believe that this case in its totality has a racial undertone to it and so that's a huge difference, anderson. >> i want to play something that you said back in march of last year for our viewers. >> whether or not trayvon was a perfect student is irrelevant to whether zimmerman's conduct that night was justified. trayvon was a kid. he was another unarmed black boy whose life was lost because of unfounded stereotypes, suspicions and fears. >> during the trial the idea of racial profiling wasn't talked about, profiling was talked about but not racial profiling. do you think that -- that there is an underpinning of race throughout this that wasn't brought into the trial? >> no. what he was charged with, anderson, is very important. criminal profiling, and i think we heard it time and time again from th

the urban natural, said it was pivotal what ben crump said. under florida law anyone can walk through a neighborhood and get chased down. tom, an interesting point, isn't it, taking this case to a natural extension, that can happen to anybody and this could all happen again tomorrow. >> well, piers, the question is where does self-defense begin? if zimmerman chose to follow him and confront him after the police told him not to, if zimmerman chose to come after him with a deadly weapon after the homeowners association specifically forbade that kind of behavior, when does self-defense begin? i think the key to this case as far as the jury is concerned is what value they place on how things started. if they blame zimmerman for causing this series of events, he will be convicted of something. the whole defense is that self-defense began when trayvon responded to zimmerman. they say self-defense began when trayvon ended up on top of zimmerman. and i suggested that's not when self-defense began. self-defense began when he chose to confront trayvon,

. >> i think it's appropriate we have ben crump on, we just had mark o'mara and for an hour he spoke about this case, and benjamin crump, of course, is the martin family attorney. before we get into that, how is the family doing right now? >> nair verythey're very emotio. it's been a long eve to justice, and now that they're about to get a verdict in the matter, their rh their emotions are overwhelming. >> especially sabrina fulton. sometimes she had to walk out of the courtroom when they showed pictures of her son and also in closing. why was that? >> we were sitting in court and they start a show of photographs of her baby boy. to us this is a case, but that's still her child, her youngest son, and there is a bond between a mother and son that everybody articulates as something so close. and so she was overcome with emotion, and we went to the attorney commons room, and her and i talked, and she let out all her emotions and grief, and then she read the bible and she looked at me, don, and she said, attorney crump, we're going to be okay. and i thought that was really interesting, be

i will echo your sentiments about ben crump. he is an advocate for the family. he was retired to be an advocate for the family. it could be said that he formed he created the momentum to bring this case. he created the political momentum. he cree heiated the media momentum and that is what he was retained to do for a mother and father that lost their 17-year-old. but if the feds get involved here, geraldo, i will shave your mustache because that is just not happening. >> geraldo: okay. i like that. i like that, it is a bold preediction there. i appreciate that. judge ferierie what to you think? >> i agree. rodney king was is acting under cover of law and that is why the feds were able to go after them. by the way, let's not forget that he is the one who is going to o be bringing actions now. he has a good action against a major network that altered the phone call to make it sound like he was saying that the suspicious thing about trayvon martin was that he was black. they edited out completely the fact that he said the suspicious thing was he was walking. the di

that's ben crump and other people. don't discredit what he did as long as he acknowledges that's exactly what happened. >> do you think that george zimmerman would have even been charged had ben crump not been pulled into this? >> no. ben crump or someone like him, because had ben crump not gotten involved in the case, maybe for some good reasons to believed in. if he believed there was something swept under the rug, get into it. i'm very okay with that. >> you didn't say it that way. you thought if it weren't for ben crump george zimmerman would be free and we would not be in that trial. >> that's correct. i think it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. they victimized him -- they complain about trayvon martin being victimized. george zimmerman was victimized by a publicity campaign to smear him, to call him a racist when he wasn't and call him a murderer when he wasn't. >> there's a lot there. i just -- i'm curious what your response to that is. >> well, very simply, it's alm

i will echo your sentiments about ben crump. he is an advocate for the family.e was retired to be an advocate for the family. it could be said that he formed he created the momentum to bring this case. he created the political momentum. he cree heiated the media momentum and that is what he was retained to do for a mother and father that lost their 17-year-old. but if the feds get involved here, geraldo, i will shave your mustache because that is just not happening. >> geraldo: okay. i like that. i like that, it is a bold preediction there. i appreciate that. judge ferierie what to you think? >> i agree. rodney king was is acting under cover of law and that is why the feds were able to go after them. by the way, let's not forget that he is the one who is going to o be bringing actions now. he has a good action against a major network that altered the phone call to make it sound like he was saying that the suspicious thing about trayvon martin was that he was black. they edited out completely the fact that he said the suspicious thing was he was walking. the disp

did you ever instruct your attorney, ben crump -- you didn't have ben crump when you listened to the tape on the 27th or the 28th, did you? >> no. >> he was not your attorney at that point? >> no, he wasn't. >> later, did you instruct him to say that the police lied when they said that you couldn't tell -- when they said that you had said "no" about it being your son's voice. did you instruct your lawyer to say that? >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> you never instructed ben crump to say the police had lied about that. >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> did you instruct your lawyer, ben crump, to say that the audio has since been cleared up and now you can hear it better? >> no, wii didn't. >> nothing further. >> may mr. martin be excused? >> yes, your honor. subject to recall. >> mr. o'mara, may mr. martin step down? >> certainly. >> you may step down. call your next witness, please >> we've just been listening to plaintive and painful testimony from tracy martin, the father of trayvon martin, speaking about those phone calls, the 911 calls, and i'm join

we'll also hear from trayvon martin's family lawyer ben crump.ut first, we want to hear your thoughts on the trial. please head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'. >>> the defense in the george zimmerman trial rested today. setting the stage for closing arguments which start tomorrow. ultimately george zimmerman's fate lies in the hands of the jury. six women, five of them are white, and five of them mothers. joining us from sanford is craig melvin. what can you tell us about the jurors? >> rev, always good to see you. i can tell you the jury for the most part has been pretty engaged throughout the course of the trial. today, in fact, they were especially engaged. i just heard your panel talki

there's a history to this, a legacy to this, as ben crump alluded to.he long history of race an justice in america and what the future holds as our "360" town hall continues. we'll be right back. announcer: announcer: you're on the right track to save big during sleep train's triple choice sale. for a limited time, you can choose to save hundreds on beautyrest and posturepedic mattress sets. or choose $300 in free gifts with sleep train's most popular tempur-pedic mattresses. you can even choose 48 months interest-free financing on the new tempur-choice with head-to-toe customization. the triple choice sale ends soon at sleep train! ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >>> we're talking about race and justice in tonight's "360" town hall, how americans of all races have experienced something that's supposed to be distributed equally. but the question is it? can george zimmerman's family an trayvon martin's family, and you get the same answer. no, because my son should have never been tried or no, because my son should still be arrive

ben crump or someone like him. because ben crump not gotten involved in the case, maybe for some good reasons to begin with, if he believed that there was something here that was being swept under the rug, then get on into it. i'm very okay with that. >> reporter: but you didn't quite say it that way. you made it sound like it was ben crump, george zimmerman would be free at this time and we would not be in a trial. >> that's correct. i think it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. and that they victimized him, they complained about trayvon martin being victimized. george zimmerman was victimized by a publicity campaign to smear him and call him a racist when he wasn't and call him a murderer when he wasn't. >> reporter: and so angela corey and the governor and all of those that had a hand in bringing about this prosecution, they were all manipulated by ben crump? >> oh, i don't know that it was ben crump doing all that manipulation. but i'm very surprised that the prosecut

did you ever instruct your attorney ben crump -- you didn't have ben crump when you listened to the tape on the 28th. he was not your attorney at that point? >> no, he wasn't. >> later did you instruct him to say that the police lied when they said that you couldn't tell -- when they said that you had said no about your son's voice? did you instruct your lawyer to say that? >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> you never instructed ben crump to say anything about that? >> i never instructed anyone to say anything. >> do you agree with jeff that you have zimmerman's friends, you have tracy martin, you have sabrina fulton, george zimmerman's mother, do you agree with jeff that ultimately, the jurors are just going to say, look, i don't know? >> first, the defense put on some tremendous witnesses to counter trayvon martin's mother at the opening of their case. but jeff is right. even if we look at this like a wash, we can't figure out who it is, then when the jurors don't know something, they're going to be inclined to acquit. however, let's just assume for argument's sake that i

this is what he would accuse ben crump doing. he manipulated the media. one point is the first images that came out of trayvon martin, a youthful, very young, very small child-like figure. these were in the photographs released by the family. that is what mark o'meara points at. what are the first pictures we saw of george zimmerman? mainly as a mug shot. they looked for photos, mug shots, public domain. that's what we saw of george zimmerman. we saw a very youthful, very young child of trayvon martin. that is the manipulation he is referencing. is it a question for the media? yeah. the media must look at that. >> i remember when this story started. how it played out because there was criticism that the media, why didn't this story get national attention? and you know how the media works. whatever is available, that's what you use. if you have those photographs available. the media didn't know who ben crump was. the media had no idea. at least the national media. maybe locally, yes. the national media had no idea. >> i think what really happened here and

. >> did you ever instruct your attorney -- you didn't have ben crump when you listened to the tape on the 28th, did you? >> no. >> later did he instruct you to say that the police lied when they said that you couldn't tell -- when they said that you had said no about it being your son's voice? did you instruct your lawyer to say that? >> i never instructed anyone to say that. >> you never instructed ben crump to lie to the police about that? >> i never instructed anyone else to say anything. >> did you instruct your lawyer ben crump to say that the tape had been cleared up -- >> no, i did not. >> as trayvon martin's father steps down, we're going to take a quick break and be back with more from the george zimmerman murder trial. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood d

i appreciate you all being with us. [ applause ] so ben crump, i want to start off with you.s you heard, i interviewed juror b37 yesterday, and she said that race, in her opinion, was not a factor in this and never came up in the jury deliberation. i want to play some of what she said. >> do you feel that george zimmerman racially profiled trayvon martin? do you think race played a role in his decision, his view of trayvon martin as suspicious? >> i don't think he did. i think just circumstances caused george to think that he might be a robber or trying to do something bad in the neighborhood, because of all that had gone on previously. there were unbelievable a number of robberies in the neighborhood. >> so you don't believe race played a role in this case? >> i don't think it did. i think if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> do you believe that? >> well, i watched the interview, anderson, and the biggest thing i took away from it, she never, ever saw

and you have to keep in mind as she mentioned, the defense wants to depose ben crump.ed into the courtroom because they need to depose him. and she allowed them a deposition with ben crump about a month ago. and it hasn't occurred. so she's not going to be inclined to keep this jury sort of sitting and twidling their thumbs in a hotel room when she could be here in court. >> do we have -- i know it's usually a surprise who they actually bring forth. do we have any idea basically who they would bring forth, the state, when they rest their case this afternoon? >> sure. i suspect that they're going to call the medical examiner that actually conducted the autopsy on trayvon martin. i also think that it is likely that one of trayvon martin's family members will testify that the cries for help on the audiotape were of trayvon martin. and i -- i say that not because i've necessarily heard that or that, you know, but if i were prosecuting this case, that's the note i would end thissabrybs trayvon martin's brother testifying that that was their loved one's voice on that 911 cal

i'm joined now with benjamin crump, attorney for trayvon martin's family. benalways good to see you. >> thank you for having me, joy. >> ben, i think so many people are succumbed in their own grief, i they forget that primary griefers are the mom and dad of trayvon martin. how are they doing this evening. >> last night was certainly difficult. but sabrina told me, she cried, woke up and went to church and has a new legacy for trayvon martin. >> what is that legacy? what do they want the legacy of their son to be? >> you know, one thing that was so encouraged, joy, and you have interviewed is a bresabrina per. they handle themselves with dignity and grace. and she said that we have to roll up our sleeves because even though we've come a long way, we have a long way to go to make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else's child. i thought that was so profound that the day after the verdict she is thinking we still have work to do. because we can't get bogged down in negativity. we have to remain focused and try to make this negative a positive. >> you and i have

andly a chance to talk to ben crump. and he said john guy gave a strong close. and he went on to say that john guy cut to the heart of the matter. and that is where this case is, a heart. and he emphasized heart. so they went into a small little area. you know these courthouses have little side rooms where attorneys can meet with clients. and they're holed up right now away from the activity, as everyone is waiting to see whether the jury is going to come back with a verdict today. then the special prosecutor, the one who's in charge of all this, while you haven't seen her sitting at the table, you have seen her in shots at the courtroom. she was seated in front of trayvon martin's parents there. she's the one who chose to bring the second degree murder charge after reviewing what she said was an overwhelming amount of evidence. and she's the one who is the administrator of john guy and the entire team there, and i asked her how she felt that things had gone and where things are now in terms of waiting for the jury. and she said we do this all the time. we put i

i appreciate all of you being with us. [ applause ] ben crump, i want to start off with you. as you heard, i interviewed juror b-37 yesterday and she said that race, in her opinion, was not a factor in this and never came up in the jury deliberation. >> do you feel that george zimmerman racially profiled trayvon martin? do you think race played a role in his decision, his view of trayvon martin as suspicious? >> i don't think he did. i just think circumstances caused george to think that he might be a robber or trying to do something bad in the neighborhood because of all that had gone on previously. there were unbelievable number of robberies in the neighborhood. >> so you don't believe race played a role in this case? >> i don't think it did. if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> do you believe that? >> well, i watched the interview, anderson, and the biggest thing i took away from it, she never, ever saw sabrina fulton's child, trayvon, as her child.

one arm reaches in, and ben crump, we get the doors open and he joins what is already a crowded car, he is the trayvon martin family attorney and rides up with us and we said how are you feeling? what are you feeling? and he said, he was feeling confident. and he looked confident. but of course, the ruling did not go the family's way. not the way they would have liked it and they were not there, it was noticeable. you could not help but notice, because we see the family every day in that courtroom and watch and he know that they have to, you know, suffer as they do seeing the imagery and hearing about the death of their child. so, you know, that you knew and you figured at this moment, where were they? did they know in some way? we don't know. >> it was very different in his mood. he did an interview with me a couple of hours ago and then again at the press conference after the verdict. ben crump i'm talking about. >> the closiing arguments play back in my head and they both did their very best in their statements. john guy had a line and the last part of his line was, george zimmerm

accompanying them is their family attorney, who is ben crump. ben crump said to me that john guy, the prosecutor, gave a strong close. then a couple minutes later he said that john guy cut to the heart of the matter and that is where this case is, a heart. then a few moments later he said, emphasize heart. then he texted me, emphasize heart. they are now off to the side in the courthouse. there are special rooms set aside for the attorneys, for family members to go to. so they've retreated to that location. meantime, angela cory, the special prosecutor assigned from jacksonville by the governor of the state, who put together this charge. it was her decision to bring a second-degree murder charge. she did not present this to a grand jury. the police did not bring the charge. it was angela cory's decision. as she exited the court, i asked her what she thought about how things went. she basically said, here's the quote, we do this all the time. we put it in the hands of the jury, and now we wait. i also saw bernie de la rionda. didn't want to say t

. >> i want to bring ben crump into this conversation, and benjamin, you spoke about how frustrating it's been to hear from two jurors now, who have both said basically they were confused by the jury instructions. let me play a little bit more from the juror on that. listen to this. >> i was the juror that was going to give them the hung jury. i was. i fought until the end. >> do you have regrets that you didn't? >> kind of. i mean, i'm the only minority and i felt like i let a lot of people down. >> all right. what's your reaction to that benjamin? >> we can't do anything, unfortunately, now to sybrina and tracy's terrible disappointment and hold the killer of their son responsible but change the stand your ground laws so nobody else will reach the verdict in these matters. i respectfully disagree. i do think there was evidence there to hold george zimmerman accountable. it was very clear when you looked at the evidence and you took away any of the rhetoric from the prosecutor or defense and look at trayvon martin was running away from him and minutes later he has a bullet in his he

. >> i want to bring ben crump into this conversation, and benjamin, you spoke about how frustrating it's been to hear from two jurors now, who have both said basically they were confused by the jury instructions. let me play a little bit more from the juror on that. listen to this. >> i was the juror that was going to give them the hung jury. i was. i fought until the end. >> do you have regrets that you didn't? >> kind of. i mean, i'm the only minority and i felt like i let a lot of people down. >> all right. what's your reaction to that benjamin? >> we can't do anything, unfortunately, now to sybrina and tracy's terrible disappointment and hold the killer of their son responsible but change the stand your ground laws so nobody else will reach the verdict in these matters. i respectfully disagree. i do think there was evidence there to hold george zimmerman accountable. it was very clear when you looked at the evidence and you took away any of the rhetoric from the prosecutor or defense and look at trayvon martin was running away from him and minutes later he has a bullet in his he

>> no, ben crump was someone like him. maybe for some good reasons to begin with. if he believed if there was something here swept under the rug, then get on into it, i'm very clear about that. >> but you didn't quite say it that way, if it weren't for ben crump, george zimmerman would be free in this trial? >> that's correct. >> i believe it was a made-up story for purposes that had nothing to do with george zimmerman. they complain about trayvon martin being victimized. george zimmerman was victimized by a publicity to smear him to call him a racist when he wasn't and call him a murderer when he wasn't. >> there are a lot of people who agree with mark omar rar. there are a lot of people who see ben crump who has brought this case to the forefront. without his charisma and help, had-t wouldn't have gotten the attention. >> and he also says that the jury remains as much as mystery now to him as the day that those six women were seated. i want to play more of martin savidge's interview with you with mark owe mare rar. o'mara. >> let's talk about the makeup of the ju