ben ginsburg, republican strategist and partner at jones day. karen from "the washington post."alexander burns, with "the new york times," thank you all for being here. donald trump was asked if he can unite the republican party. his reply was he thinks he can unite most of it, but there will still be some who say never trump, i don't need them, i'm better off without them. is he right, can he get by without full unity of the party? >> yes, i suspect he can. what he showed in the primary, he can bring in low propensity voters in record numbers, so all political life is a trade-off of coalitions. and yes, i suspect he does see that path. >> how many do you think, ben, this term, never trump, when we come to it in november, on election day, how many do you think are really in that camp on the republican side, where they can't check his name off on the ballot? >> i think that's unknowable right now. i think it depends very much on the campaign that he runs, how he sounds about issues, the substance he can show on policy positions, and the ability he exudes to have people actually s

very lucky, and we've been very good is the former general counsel of the national committee, ben ginsburgthank you for being with us tonight. >> a pleasure. >> i want to ask you about what we were just talking about with mike murphy, which is this normalization or the question of the normalization of the donald trump campaign. since the primary effectively ended after indiana, he has named a finance chairman, given his de facto blessing to a super pac. he's just hired a pollster. is this from your vantage, is this becoming a normal campaign? >> well, certainly, there is a recognition that you've got to do something different in general election than you did in a primary, that the primary started off as five guys on a pirate ship, and scaling up into a general election is really difficult and challenging thing to do. and they're taking the steps to do it. that's just smart. >> in terms of the rnc and the republican party more broadly having some resistance to donald trump, obviously, we hear that anecdotally from guys like mike murphy. from other individual republicans talking about having

chris cillizza, anita dunn, and ben ginsburg. at the portion in the trump rally where he's kicking protesters out. >> get them out, get them out. like he's a kindergartner. >> let's dip in he, he's talkin about bernie sanders. >> the system is rigged. our system is rigged too. except for one thing, if you win by massive landslides every week, it's no longer rigged. it's like the boxers -- that's right. that's what happened. the system was not meant for me to come in as an outsider that built a great company. i built a great, great company. when i filed, when i -- in fact, papa doug knows, when i filed my papers, over a hundred pages in federal elections and i filed. tremendous company, tremendous iconic assets, unbelievable cash flow, very little debt, makes a lot of money. and they were so unhappy to see it. but i say it for a different reason. and i started off with a million dollar loan and have a net worth of much more than $10 billion. and i don't even want it. all i want to say is, this is the kind of thinking that we need

. >> ben ginsburg, always good to see you. we're going to broaden it out. we're going to get your take on the republicans and the democrats, too. when we hear senator sanders say things like that, when we hear donald trump or see donald trump tweeting out saying he thinks the system is rigged against bernie sanders, that's not entirely surprising, because that could only help donald trump in many ways, to try to make people feel less disenfranchised. how, though, is this message resonating with voters to this point? >> i suspect the conversation about being the system being rigged is over among republican voters. victor has a way of doing that. it's really interesting on the democratic side. what bernie sanders is referring to is the over 700 super delegates that democrats have. now, what's interesting about the super delegates is that they represent the party establishment in an anti-establishment year. the problem for hillary clinton going into the convention is that in pledged delegates, delegates actually won, bernie sanders is probably going to end up

. >> joining me now, katie tur, ben ginsburg, dorian warren, and robert george. i should no i thought that was news making, that interview with bill o'reilly, for this reason. it is hard to nail down trump on policy. if you were to say to me what is the policy about donald trump. i would say build a wall, make mexico pay for it and stop muslims from coming to the u.s. after that, it gets a little murkier. here is my big question for you. do you anticipate increasing republican orthodoxy from the man who is now the leader of the republican party? >> i think donald trump is going to be donald trump. and i think his meeting with paul ryan will give you particular clues about how far he's willing to go on republican orthodoxy, as well as the way the platform plays out at the convention. i believe his beliefs, what he says about policy, he will have to flesh out more as the campaign goes along and i think he wants to do that. >> there's a whole bunch of things part of the republican catechism and official policy. those things are repealing obamacare, which he says he'

. >> joining me now at the table, tara edel, ben ginsburg who served on george w. bush and mitt romney's presidential campaigns. you spent a lot of time, casey with the sanders campaign. >> yes, how are they going to land the plane. no, i mean this, what is -- like sanders says we can do math and they can do math everyone at this table can do math. they would have to win by 35 points by all the remaining contests. that is barring some anom house that's not going to happen. having spent as much time with them as you have, what do you think? >> there's been this internal struggle back and forth between jeff weaver on one side tad devine on the other, it waivers back and forth. the bernie sanders you've seen over the last 48 hours has ratcheted this up. look at that statement he put out earlier. how it contrasts with lucy florez, she put out a statement saying there should be no room for that kind of name calling of female name calling for supporters of either hillary clinton or bernie clinton. i think it's becoming less and less clear how he lands this plane. there's

ben ginsburg, an analyst. scale of 1-10, how bad a week did donald trump have? >> i think he had a pretty good week. the meetings in washington we werepositwere posi positive, a natural inclination to coalesce. he took the right steps to get there. interestingly enough the three stories we talked about today had nothing to do with the issues. the whole issues debate is getting pushed down a bit in all of this. >> isn't that your candidate, because of the person at the top of the ticket right now? >> i don't know if we want to get into a chicken and egg d discourse about it whether it's the media or candidate. there's a certain fast nation prevalent throughout the primary with things other than the issues and probably a mutual-beneficial society between the media and the candidate. >> let me ask you about the issues. yesterday, we heard the chair saying he thinks trump is largely together with the republican platform, most of what he believes in is reflected on the party as a whole believe. you look where paul ryan and donald trump disagree, tax cuts, immigration

it was chaired by mitt romney's lawyer, ben ginsburg, and his own counsel, and they agreed on the need to modernize voter registration, and they agreed there ought to be national standard for how long you have to wait on line. we're one country. we ought to be able to have able to vote with an equal and effective voice, no matter where they live. this is a matter of will and investment. there's no magical technology. i will mention one technological thing to make you more nervous. after florida, one of the things -- in 2000, one of the things hat happened was congress passed a law requiring states to move to electronic voting and it was controversial because people were worried about security. that's actually largely been addressed there are ways to make the machines actually better than the old machines, even the beloved old lever machines we all liked to close the curtain on here in new york. that's the good news. the bad news is, they're 15 years old. their computers are 15 years old. and they use zip drives and they're all on the verge of breaking. 43 states, the voting machines, e

that just came out of the mouth of ben ginsburg.s that mean you have gone through the denial and anger looking glass and you have come through to acceptance? >> well, i think to think that my friends at msnbc have helped a great deal in that. the electoral reality is pretty stark right now. it is not a republican convention that's going to turn upside down the apple cart. i think what you have seen and are continuing to see a number of people within the republican establishment recognizing that. it's why donald trump could put out that list of donors this week. it's why the continuing discussions with paul ryan are so important. but the reality is, as he goes into cleveland with 1,237 delegates and more, he is going to be the nominee of the party. and that's plain math. >> and let's talk about paul ryan for a moment. he comes to cleveland, you know, second in line in presidential succession. he comes to cleveland as the -- the number one elected republican official. how is he going to thread this needle? there was a lot of talk abou

joining me now at the table, democratic strategist, ben ginsburg, political analyst who serves the national council for george w. bush's and mitt romney's campaigns. and our own cakasie hunt, political correspondent. you spent a lot of time with the sanders campaign. >> yes. >> how are they going to land the plane? no, like, you know, sanders has this line, we can do math and everyone at this table with do math. they're 300 pledged delegates down. they'd have to win by 35 points in all the remaining contests to win. that is almost certainly barring some absolutely historically anomalous situation not going to happen. so then what? what do you think? >> it's a question that honestly i've been asking for months. and there's been this internal struggle back and forth between usually it's jeff weaver, the campaign manager on one side, tad devine, the strategist on the other, and it wavers back and forth. the bernie sanders that you've seen over the last 48 hours, if anything ratcheted this up, just look at that statement he put out on what happened in nevada earlier today, how it contrasts with

have two people busting to get in on this conversation, however, and that's nicole wallace and ben ginsburg, long-time gop counsel and in that order your reaction? >> i don't think he knocked over 16 really accomplished people. i think he beat them fair and square in the system that exists. >> yep. >> i think there is plenty -- there's precedent for people -- everyone at some point was outside of politics and perhaps it is a symptom of everything that's wrong with our poll tibs that it's such a revelation when someone from outside a system that a majority of people in both parties view as rigged prevails. but i think it is sort of a natural and healthy progression of a party that loses two national elections. you have to look at what it does to the psychology of your grass roots when you lose in '08, you lose in '12, you have some victories in midterms but nothing changes. so i think this is a very natural and somewhat unsurprising reaction from our voters. >> ben? >> it is an unsurprising reaction that they would choose a different path. that donald trump really has sort of taken a big chu

. >>> let me bring in ben ginsburg. thanks for sticking around. you were on this morning. let me ask you about party unity. a couple of pieces of news. john kasich gave an interview last night and said he's not ready to endorse donald trump. didn't roll it out. tom ridge, the former homeland security secretary, former pennsylvania governor has a new column this morning saying why i won't vote for trump. trump reflects the traits of a bully, not an american president. the republican leader level, that's the news this morning. when you look at that poll, do you see a unified party? >> the polls show the voters seem to be more unified than the leaders may be in washington. those poll numbers will also probably have the effect of galvanizing even more support. there will be leaders at the top who still have objections to donald trump. paul ryan's decision making process in the way he'll deal with the issues that divide him will be key in unifying the party. and they are sort of timed to happen right before the convention in cleveland. >> when it comes down to it and we get int

. >> let me bring in for more analysis, ben ginsburg. howard fineman is with us as well. i go back to this statement of honest dialogue. you have speaker ryan saying we cannot pretend to be unified when we're not. but is he pretending here that his goal is to roll donald trump, to have donald trump be the opposite of what he has been from everything on immigration, from the fluid answer now on banning muslims, to even as he pointed out, the separation of power, which it seems that some within the party and maybe even speaker ryan are not convinced donald trump fully understands. >> well, i'm going to disagree with your basic assumption in the question. i think what you're seeing here is people that do have different views and they will end up coming together before the convention. and frankly, a paul ryan endorsement of donald trump given what we've seen today and what we've heard will mean much more and add to much more momentum if it comes on the eve of the convention down the road after having these discussions that do bridge the gap in the republican party. >> you're

mike and attorney ben ginsburg.column and you talk about it. >> at your own risk. >> bernie sanders acts -- sanders stays in the race because his own rhetoric has become a narcotic for him. you're suggesting it's one big e ego trip. >> nobody without ego gets in to this game. he, more than anybody, sometimes i feel i'm not virtuous enough to talk about bernie sanders. no i -- you said the same thing. don't you get the idea he is so far above this and this has been a political season where you know the old line you don't want to see how the sausage is made. every day of this campaign, we have seen that. and the idea he's not -- i know hi hillary clinton can be her own worst enemy. but every day he stays in this, the idea he's not hurting her is ridiculous. >> i agree with you. i want to know why he keeps telegraphing this message to his voters. why he's part of the delusion. i mean, he's losing. he's lost. he's been mathematically eliminated since mid march. he wants to defy math? what is sort of the string that ties