ben jealous, talk about what is happening in washington today. many people coming down from new york, going to the justice department. >> folks will be here to me with the congressional black caucus in the meet with the holder and his staff. folks are here quite frankly because the needs to be a pattern of practice investigation into the cops. what is going on in the city is really wholesale racial profiling. we see 700,000 people stopped, 90% have done absolutely nothing wrong. of that 10% have done something wrong, most get a ticket one out of 1000 actually has a gun on them. 90% are people of color. the stops are so frequent, as you said, there are more stops of young black man than there are young black men in the entire city. this is the biggest, most aggressive racial profiling problem that we have in this country. it just has to be stopped. >> ben jealous, in terms of what you're hoping to get out of the members of congress, there are hearing scheduled for -- are using this as new york representing something, a trend anywhere else in the c

here to help me understand why is michael tomasky and ben jealous.ack us with peter goodman and chloe angyal. i want to go about this really carefully. why is it that the skills are not transferrable from i'm a ceo of a corporation to i'm now going to run the very complex thing that is the american government? >> when are you the ceo of a company, you run the company. if you don't like what somebody is doing in the company, you can fire them, you can completely transform the structure, the system. have you a very clear target that's defined by metrics, trying to get dollars to your investors, president of the united states, you have to deal with congress, public opinion, deal with the divisions of geography, religion, tradition, you don't get to decide everything. you are accountable to a very complex outcome which is what we call the common good. >> and here is something else. a little bit more like being the executive director of a nonprofit organization, one that has a board. >> a very big board. >> a very big, diverse board that may often disagre

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ben, the defense suggested. and they put the blame on angie herself for possibly making him jealous. >> a bouncer at the club wherecting. that she was extremely flirtatious with him and that's how she got in the club. and just the general tenor of her behavior. >> you're kind of making her out to be -- >> it sounds that way, doesn't it? >> -- sort of trampy. >> trampy is a harsh word. what i'd say is things weren't exactly as they seemed. that there maybe had been some reckless behavior. maybe a little bit more fun and flirtatious than certain people would have liked. and that maybe someone found out about it. >> you think ben was angrier than he let on? >> much angrier. >> even though he appeared calm. >> there are a lot of suspects out there that can appear calm when they need to be calm. >> they put on a defense of anything they could that would stick. and the best way to do that is to attack the victim. and the victim's reputation and credibility. and she wasn't there because he had murdered her to defend herself. and that's what they did. shame on them. >> and it didn't work. >> it didn't work. >> despite the