that's always been the surprising piece of it. >> so, ben rhodes, on that point, he's a 7-year-old with everything you just articulated. what is your biggest fear about these last 49 days? >> well, i think that, you know, while i appreciate the intent of people who are saying things like, you know, now's the time to step aside and do the right thing to protect your legacy, this is his legacy. his legacy is the corruption and debasement of the office of the presidency, of the republican party, of the institutions of american government. and i guess my biggest fear is really not that he's going to start some nuclear war, although you always have to be concerned about that when there's someone that you just gave an apt description to, in charge of the nuclear codes. it's how much more is he going to corrupt and debase the institutions of our government? how much more cynicism is he going to breed among his supporters? how many more conspiracy theories is he going to plant to try to delegitimize joe biden before he gets into office? and the reality is, people can stop this. the republican p

joining us now, "washington post" columnist and msnbc contributor, ben rhodes is still here.boss george bush made sure the transition to bl president obama was more than just smooth, and he paid that forward from the most unconventional transition to president donald trump's team. this is not making sure the transition is bumpy, this is not delaying the transition, this is sabotaging it. what are the sort of tools available to the biden team to push back? >> well, i think, frankly, nicole, there are very few tools. i think the strategy for the biden transition has to be to get as much information as they can to process as much as they can and then to wait until about the third week of january to come in and really do the job. i mean, i think it's really unfortunate that this president has continued to decide that he would rather just burn the house down than to ensure both a peaceful transition, a smooth transition at such a difficult time in our country. and you know the transition from george bush to barack obama was also at a really complicated economic time and, you know,

ben rhodes is back, security adviser to president obama and elizabeth neumann from threat preventionecurity policy at the department of homeland security, one of the agencies that was hacked. and now an adviser to the group defending democracy together. and politico reporter eric geller is here. this is a fast moving story and one that was overshadowed by yesterday's breaking news. i wonder if you could just take me through the facts as they stand at this hour. >> right now the facts as they stand are that the government are in crisis. it thinks it has a handle on which agencies were affected by this pretty sophisticated attack. but what doesn't know is what files were taken. they believe no classified systems have been affected. so the u.s. most important secrets they believe have not been accessed but there is a lot of stuff on the unclassified systems, especially the microsoft hosted email accounts that could still be useful to a foreign power that wants to know what the u.s. government is doing right now. >> eric, for people that don't understand how the russian cyber warfare tak

ben rhodes, thank you for joining us. have a great holiday.ving you on. >>> the second drug company has put forth a covid-19 vaccine. that's next. vaccine that's next. just like your fingertips, your lips have a unique print. ...and unique needs. your lips are like no others and need a lip routine that's just right for you. chapstick® has you covered. chapstick®. put your lips first®. ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. with zero down, zero due at signing, until i found out what itust? it actually was.d me. dust mite droppings? ewww. dead skin cells? gross! so now, i grab my swiffer heavy duty sweeper and dusters. dusters extends to 6 feet to reach way up high... to grab, trap and lock away gross dust. nice! for dust on my floors, i switch to sweeper. the heavy duty cloths reach deep in grooves to grab, trap and lock dust bunnies... no matter where they hide. no more heebie jeebies. phhhhew.

gerry: ben rhodes who served in the obama administration described killing of iranian scientist by theoutrage just, undermining the new administration diplomacy. perhaps we talked about, perhaps sabotaging that diplomacy. is that your view? >> well i, having worked with mossad when i was cia director, they have for a long time targeted various individuals in iran. so it doesn't come as much of a surprise that they would strike at the top nuclear scientists. as to it us manicallycations, obviously it fits in with all of the other tensions in that area surrounding iran, surrounding the united states, surrounding israel as well as the region. so there is no question that it complicates the effort i'm sure by the biden administration to try to re-establish the nuclear agreement by iran. gerry: do you think as we get, again as the biden administration prepares to take office, they have talked about the possibility of getting back into that nuclear deal. president trump obviously taken a very different approach. what do you think the odds are they will be able to resurrect that, to restore u

ben rhodes, thank you for taking time.reciate you coming on. >>> the fda has just approved a second coronavirus vaccine for emergency use but will the trump administration's shambolic politics impair that, next. hambc politics impair that, next at removing plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums parodontax vicks vapopatch. easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. trusted soothing vapors, from vicks (betsy)) quarter mile of tinsel. of lights. (harold) and real snow all the way from switzerland. (betsy) hmmhm... gonna be tough to top. well played. (vo) add some thrill to your wish list. at the season of audi sales event. get exceptional offers now. bundle auto and home, and save up to 25% with allstate. bundling just feels good this time of year. saving is easy when you're in good hands. call a local agent, or 1-800-allstate for a quote today. >>> breaking tonight, the fda has authorized a moderna coronavirus vaccine for emergency use, opening the door for at least 6 million doses to be

like foreign policy was run by obama, ben rhodes and denis mcdonough.good, they're getting a guy in there who actually knows how to make you know what actually work right in washington. but then, obviously, because i have so much respect for you i read your piece. you see it a completely different way. you're very disappointed in it. tell me about that. tell me why. >> yeah, with all due respect, joe, you're a washington insider so that's what i'd expect you to say to this pick and that's where a lot of folks are coming in on this. >> yeah. >> here's the bottom line for me. representation matters. we talk about it all the time. democrats talk about it all the time and i'm not even a democrat and it matters apparently everywhere in the federal government except at the department of veterans affairs where we've selected again a person who's not a veteran. he -- we were hoping for a post 9/11 veteran. we were hoping for a woman veteran or someone who could be totally transformative. we didn't get a veteran. there are almost 19 million veterans in america,

myself, senator ben sass, congressman mike gallagher of wisconsin, republican from wisconsin, jim launch event, a democratic member of the house, member of the armed services committee for rhode island. we also had four members from the executive and six members from the private sector, one of the most valuable members of the entire commission was tom fanning, who is the ceo of the southern company. i think it is the second-largest electrical utility in the country. we had over 30 meetings. we had about 90% attendance at all of our meetings. we talked about a whole range of cyber issues. our report boils down to three simple points. one is reorganization, reorganizing and organizing our government to be responsive to this problem and not operate in silos. secondly is resilience, how to strengthen our resistance to cyberattacks and how to build up our defenses, if you will, and the third is response. how do we develop a deterrent doctrine so that our adversaries have to feel that they will pay a price for attacking this thetry, even if it is below level of threshold of the use of force? energy of course is a major target. one of the challenging parts of this problem, which you