. >> kevin, seems that ben silverman's personality plays in that >> we talked about this ipo day. >> a hype guy, right >> no. >> the reality of increased spending as they try to expand to international markets, that hits you in the face you know, growth number being lower than you wanted hits you in the face. he is not telling a hyped story around how well they're going to do do investors need to factor that in, and what are the real significant tells in ben silverman that investors should look at if they want to get excited. >> things we talked about, user basis growing, overall ad growth, that's a large increase for a company this scale at this point, and hopefully you're going to see it continue in the next year. ben is a steady operator he is not a big hype guy, but also not going to lose the forest for the trees he is the kind of person that builds the company for the future he mentioned on the call they made tweaks to algorithms, made the site more usable i think they'll learn from this and move forward. >> biggest risk to the buy thesis >> the big risk, that international mone

made it hard to figure out how well it is doing they never played the game todd morganfeld and ben silvermanto do upod, we're not going to underpromise and overdeliver, that's not our style it is not. and the analysts i think keep thinking, it is all -- don't worry, they have something under -- they have a whole card that is good no, they did what they said they were going to do, continue to work it make the site better the conclusion is they're out, that they're done. other than international, everybody who is a pinner is a pinner. >> so what -- monthly average users below average revenue per user >> not great. >> was below estimates >> not below that's what's important. people have to understand, there are two kinds of below there is below estimates and then below what they say they're very -- i shouldn't have said sweet they're very earnest. >> you're not explaining why this company is losing a quarter of its market value. >> because people expected that you bought it for the growth, not for ebitda positive adjusted you bought it for growth people kind of felt, you know what, they can jus