and michelle benard, bernard center for women and politics. march on washington, there wouldn't be a congress am black caucus. 3 even if 50 years feels long away, it is somewhat transformational. >> sure, and i think even after the march on washington, even after the civil rights act of '64 and the voting rights act of afc '65, it still took time. there were a few members that came together, you know, of a similar mind, had a similar mission. it wasn't till 1971 that they founded the caucus. i think now they would be really happy to see that because of the voting rights act and because of redistricting processes that worked well, there are now 43 members that are african-american in the united states house of representatives. and one in the senate. >> you could argue at least in the house, 10%, it's roughly at least matching population. robert, she brings up the senate. politically, we're not -- there is still big gaps. >> one would think that south carolina, mississippi, alabama, the south ironically, with large african-american population wo