council that was the body that was particularly by night during some months of bombing when he said in benghazi almost as a new message. he said to the face the prospect of either violent suppression of the militias or as he said civil war and break up you can hear a lot of a lot of europeans saying well we didn't get rid of gadhafi in order to have this

they are celebrating in benghazi. >> that is the city in libya with the revolution began one year ago today, the revolution that would eventually topple muammar gaddafi. >> this report of the party people could only dream about one year ago. >> freedom square in benghazi over year ago. people are celebrating their victory over the gaddafi regime. >> we are glad that the revolution finally came to an end. we hope that things will be better and the country will go forward and everything will be freer. >> a year ago, libya was a very different place. people took to the streets to demand reforms. a defiant muammar gaddafi reacted with a violent crackdown and appeared confident of victory, but the protests led to civil war. >> after nato intervened, rebel fighters took the capital, and the dictatorship was toppled. today, there is reason for hope in libya. in june, people will vote for the first time in national elections, but not everyone is happy. there are reports of continuing human rights violations and some rebel militias remain armed. out of respect for those who died, the new leade

these tanks were on their way to benghazi and essentially britain and france averted a massacre. >> you cannot take the parallels, libya is much smaller. the radically, much more manageable. our record of getting these things wrong has been so awful in the last dictated that we need to look at this. >> look at egypt, for instance, a really disturbing report about the rise of political islam and the treatment of women. revolutionthat the has been derailed. there are systemic problems involved in these states before these transitions, before these dictators are weak and corrupt and incompetent in terms of their institutional structure. after the dictator has left, there is a vacuum and the ability to control. that is the case where there has been international intervention. in egypt, we like to think that we have quite a longstanding state institution or set of state institutions and what we have discovered is that actually we don't have such a strong state. the most prominent part of the state is the military establishment and they are now ruling and it is business as usual. >> it is a s

. >> when they pushed for action against libya, they cited in benghazi and people killed in that city. you have people being killed than homs -- in homs, but there will not be action by the international community. >> syria is not quite the pariahs that the deal was under gaddafi. there is a bit of intervention fatigue and the kind of intervention that one would have to imagine in syria is orders of magnitude greater, more risk, more casualties taken. it is harder to design and harder to execute. >> doesn't it suggest that the humanitarian barometer for international intervention is there. when you cite humanitarian reasons, you end up with this very murky decision. >> you can cite humanitarian reasons but every situation will have to stand on its own and the bottom line is that there will be in consistency. outside governments are more likely to intervene when they agree. secondly, when they have other vital interests at stake in addition to anything a humanitarian. thirdly, when they can do away when their costs are low and the likelihood of succeeding is hard. virtually none of tho

in gauzy -- benghazi is the birthplace of the revolt, and they are proud of that fact. one year on, libya of's revolution -- libya's revolution still feels like unfinished business. >> away from the jubilation, rival militias squabble over territory, often with violent consequences. most of these mobile fighters answered to no one but cerone commanders. the government -- to no one but their own commanders. the government is trying to force them into one but have met with little success. last spring, this doctor swapped his stethoscope for a gun. he and others risk their lives to overturn the brutal dictatorship. reports of former rebels torturing captured enemies. he said libya needs a new psychological revolution. >> the regime and its idea is still imprinted in many minds, so we have to change ideas. >> when he was not singing and playing his guitar, he fought on the front line. now he says it is important that those who took up arms laydown their weapons. >> music brings peace, but machine guns cannot bring peace, and sing for me the song again. >> most libyans agree

. >> when they pushed for action against libya, they cited in benghazi and people killed in that city. you have people being killed than homs -- in homs, but there will not be action by the international community. >> syria is not quite the pariahs that the deal was under gaddafi. there is a bit of intervention fatigue and the kind of intervention that one would have to imagine in syria is orders of magnitude greater, more risk, more casualties taken. it is harder to design and harder to execute. >> doesn't it suggest that the humanitarian barometer for international intervention is there. when you cite humanitarian reasons, you end up with this very murky decision. >> you can cite humanitarian reasons but every situation will have to stand on its own and the bottom line is that there will be in consistency. outside governments are more likely to intervene when they agree. secondly, when they have other vital interests at stake in addition to anything a humanitarian. thirdly, when they can do away when their costs are low and the likelihood of succeeding is hard. virtually none of tho

and where we started, i can understand the concern to prevent a massacre in benghazi. but we have to learn or understand that when the revolution rarely end the way their organizers proclaimed them. and once you start that process or get heavily involved in that process, it has its own momentum. >> rose: but can't you argue that stability and the status quo is not always in the best interest of the long term. >> absolutely. which would agree with that. >> rose: and that is the reality perhaps of the arab spring? >> i don't think it was possibly or perhaps even desirable to avoid the outbreak of the arab spring. but the evolution of the arab spring i have had my doubts about the he lack rit in which mubarak was dumped. >> but that has to do he had been a long time friend of the united states and you thought his case should have been handled better because of friendship. >> i thought that we did not owe him keeping him in office. that was beyond us. but we owed him a dignified depar ture >> rose: how do you know we didn't offer him that and he wodn't take it. >> i'm not

benghazi is the birthplace of the revolt. the people here are fiercely proud of that fact. this is a country where groups of armed men leap -- wei -- this is a country where groups of armed men have influence. there is the squabble over territory often with by the consequences. most of these brigades answer to no one but their own commanders. the government is trying to incorporate them into a national army, but so far they have met with limited success. last spring, this doctor swapped his stethoscope for a gun. he and thousands of young men like him rest their lives to overthrow gaddafi's brutal dictatorship. now, there is talk of rebel torture of their captured enemies and he says that the deal needs a new psychological revolution. >> his ideas are in printed in many minds. we have to change their minds and ideas. ♪ ♪ >> when he was not singing and playing his guitar, this man fought on the front lines. now, he would like those who took up arms to lay down their weapons. most agree that the freedoms that have come with the revolution have changed their lives for the bett

. >> the bulgarian champions take on tripoli and benghazi.re in the first match, 1- 0 for the team. the second visitors. >> cska sofia is the first juror -- foreign soccer team to come to libya since the end of the civil war. the bulgarian club has come here to play soccer. but there is that also means much more. >> this tournament is the rebirth of libyan soccer. after the toppling of gaddafi. that will give our club's a big boost. >> and the enthusiasm is mutual. the away side is also enjoying the experience. >> for us, it was amazing. the atmosphere here in the stadium is really great. >> libyan soccer has taken its first step back to normality. now players and fans are hoping that the national league will kick off soon. >> it chinese deputy president is holding talks with turkish leaders. the man who was designated to become china's next leader met with the turkish president in on car. talks focused on trade and the differing positions on syria. ahead of those talks, a protest march in ankara. human rights groups accused china of human ri

in benghazi, the celebrations have begun before the anniversary of the revolution that toppled gadhafi. but for thousands of people held in dell tension accused of loyalty to the regime, there's little to celebrate. amnesty international cataloged evidence of wide spread torture including beatings and whipping, people suspended in contorted positions and subjected to electric shocks. in 12 case, human rights groups say prisoners have died under torture. amnesty international accuses the militias to be behind the abuses of the brigade rebel fighters who operate independently across the country. >> and they are not being held accountable for what they're doing and -- >> in the past few week, the bbc has seen corroborating evidence of torture and detention. this man, ibrahim mohammed ibrahim said he had been beaten with stick, chain, and metal pipes. he feels held in a town south of tripoli, he said, accused of being a gadhafi loyalist. in misrata, we vitzed inmates who said they were taken away and tortured. they were asked to patch up torture victims. amnesty international is calling on

democracy and freedom that the fellow in benghazi talked about, that dates back to 1776, in the early. user images that we promote, we advertise in, we sell them but we don't have to. i remember being in tiananmen square in beijing in 1989 during the demonstrations, and my wife, nancy, and i went down to the square. we talked to people, largely young people throughout the square who had grown up in the country that certainly dramatically sealed from outside. and there was a styrofoam 30 foot-high version of the statute of liberty. somehow the image was there but it got there. those are positive images to print images of a racist nation, certainly well founded on slavery and jim crow. we have an image of imperialism, an image of arrogance, all sorts of images that are there by the thousands. so i've been looking at imagery that you can't stop there. that's the beginning of the issue, the beginning of the issue in "american avatar." the real question then becomes how in the world do people decide which image to invoke, which image to articulate? if you come and walking on asking people

council that was the body that was particularly by night during some months of homing when he said in benghazi almost as a message. he said that to your face the prospect of either violent suppression of the militias or as he said civil war and break up to put. the new sign that you know that i have heard that voice comes across nothing has happened then you supposed to integrate militias into the supposed national supposed national police force and just piling very limited newspaper reports why you see that very very few people have joined it you have this creation of a federation of the western militias a few days ago of a hundred militias in the western libya and that really does seem to be a step on the road to the breakup of libya into at least two parts west and east if not more and greece approved a new bill on sunday in return now for a second bailout the concert were designed to prevent the country from defaulting on its debt although angry greeks worried about their pensions and jobs responded with more protests on the streets of athens jacob greece reports. the system on the sea.

this is not libya where you had a base of operations in benghazi, where you had people who were representing the entire opposition to libya. you could get your arms around what it is you're being asked to do and with whom. we don't have any clarity on that. >> reporter: but madam secretary, what's the fear? on the ground, what is the fear of arming the rebels? >> what are we going to arm them with and against what? you're not going to bring tanks over the borders of turkey, lebanon, and jordan. that's not going to happen. so maybe at the best you can smuggle in automatic whens? where do you go? and to whom are you delivering them we know al qaeda, al-zawahiri, is supporting the opposition is n syria. are we supporting al qaeda in syria? hamas is now supporting the opposition. are we supporting hamas in syria? so i think, wyatt despite the great pleas that we hear from those people who are being ruthlessly assaulted by assad, if you're a military planner or if you're a secretary of state and you're trying to figure out do you have the elements of an opposition that is actually viable, we don'

with the body that was particularly backed by night during some months of homing what he said in benghazi almost i think message. he said that to face the prospect of either violent suppression of the militias or as he said civil war and break up you can turn off. your green sign only. you know that i have heard that voice comes across nothing has happened.

the body that was particularly by act by nato during the seven months of bombing when he said in benghazi we almost as a new year's message. he said libya faced the prospect of either all violent suppression of the militias or as he said civil war and break up you can hear a lot of a lot of libyans saying well we didn't get rid of gadhafi in order to have this vote voice comes across nothing has happened they were supposed to integrate the militias into the the supposed national law me in the supposed national police force and just by the very limited newspaper reports you know i am seeing that very very few people join in that you have this creation of the federation of the western militias a few days ago of one hundred militias in the west of libya and that really does seem to be a step on the road to the breakup of libya into at least two parts western a stiff not more. tens of thousands of people have been rallying across russia to support prime minister putin's political course and his bid for presidency next month in the premier's native st petersburg some sixty thousand people gath

council that was the body that was particularly by night during some months of bombing when he said in benghazi almost as a new message. he said to the face the prospect of either violent suppression of the militias or as he said civil war and break up you can hear a lot of a lot of europeans saying well we didn't get rid of gadhafi in order to have this voice comes across nothing has happened that was supposed to integrate militias in through the. supposed. supposed national police force and just by the very limited newspaper reports you know you see that a very very few people have joined you have this creation of a federation of the western militias a few days ago of a hundred militias in the west of libya and that really does seem to be a step on the road to the breakup of the internet at least to parts of west and east if not more. now the demand for a damaged suv is greater than ever in russia but it hasn't always been easy to find large supermarkets claim the product on their shelves are eco friendly though that's often not the case but russia may soon lead the way in the quest for natur

intervention and i didn't support intervention in libya beyond stopping that armored column from going into benghazi . you have to remember that. you know it's in a similar situation with libya where you have an alawite minority that still stands firmly behind the assad regime so you're talking about a couple million at least syrians who remain loyal. is unfortunately descending into a civil war i do support sanctions but not intervention. i want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. thank you. i just ahead on tonight's show we all know there's a lot of spin the goes in selling the war in afghanistan after the break we'll speak with one soldier the just released a report to congress tailing how bad. it was that so much. and which are. on. facebook the barbering is being called a very big deal and many who are people believe the entire tech sector but is the. we often talk about the difference between the pentagon spent on the war in afghanistan and the council we hear from veterans from journalists from human rights activists and state department workers generals and the secretary of defense

intervention and i didn't support intervention in libya beyond stopping that armored column from going into benghazi . you have to remember that. you know it's in a similar situation with libya where you have an owl white minority that still stands firmly behind the assad regime so you're talking about a couple million at least syrians who remain loyal. it is unfortunately descending into a civil war i do support sanctions but not intervention all right chris i want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. thank you. five just ahead on so we all know there's a lot of spin the goes in selling the war in afghanistan after the break we'll speak with one soldier the just released a report to congress. that. same . people calling what you said for free and fair elections. and we're still reporting from the summer as you can hear behind me loud explosions. i mean. you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harvey welcome to

there's times, occasions where, you know, here in washington or in brussels or perhaps in cairo or ben benghazi, people listen to and think about what the human rights organizations are saying and the human rights organizations can sometimes drive media coverage and public debate, you know, they can help put an issue of the u.n. security counsel at, and so that's true, yet, on the other hand, you know, you talk about, you know, the real struggle that's gone on in this country, and it's around the very, you know, what you assert, i think, rightly, the most basic idea that they are comfortable, and the fact that, you know, now more than ten years after 9/11 that that bedrock premise that still is not fully accepted, and i think we saw that in the context of some of the recent debating and the view on torture of what you see as the delusion of the language of rights to include housing, right to food, you know, that really kind of, in your mind, i think, you know, pulls into the question the meaning of rights and enforceability of rights, and your suggestion is by invoking rights language, in those

in libya, the country sort of got divided into two parts, an eastern part with benghazi, easily suppliable from the sea, you had rebels who set up a capital there and created a transition government. you could funnel arms and pone to them from egypt and through the mediterranean. none of that is available in syria. the chinese and russians are dead set against it. so it couldn't happen through the u.n. there there would be a unilateral ornate toe operation with no international legitimacy. and finally, the odds of success are frankly not that high. this is a still a regime very much in control, no real defections from the army. no defections from the intelligence service. there's no point in doing something noble and failing. i would be very, very reluctant to advocate an american intervention. >> you mentioned the surrounding areas. how will the outcome -- how will the outcome in syria affect its neighbors iraq and iran? >> if you assume what's going to happen is a slow motion either civil war or collapse of the regime over the next year or two, the biggest loser here is iran. iran is all

in libya, we had a very effective operation in benghazi that gave us an address. we could deal with people. it represented libyans across the country. we don't have that. in syria, the syrian national council is doing the best it can. it is not yet a united opposition. >> also during that interview, clinton defended telling an audience in tunisia yesterday that president obama would be re-elected. clinton said while she would not normally make political statements, her comments were appropriate. >>> nelson mandela is out of the hospital. he was discharged today after being treated for an abdominal ailme ailment. a family member said it was hernia surgery. he was awarded the nobel peace prize three years later. >>> 22 carnival cruise line passengers were robbed during a guided excursion in mexico. it happened thursday on a trail in puerto vallarta. carnival says no one was hurt and that it suspended the excursion until further notice. two weeks ago, the state department issued a nonessential travel warning to 14 mexican states. the warning included puerto vallarta.

they had a city, benghazi. or do you believe if you needed to, you could militarily intervene in syria in the same way you did in libya? >> not the same way we did in libya. syria is a very different challenge. it's a different challenge, as you described it geographically. it's a different challenge in terms of the capability of the syrian military. they are very capable. they have a very sophisticated, integrated air defense system, for example. they have chemical and biological weapons. now, they haven't demonstrated any interest or any intent to use those, but it is a very different military problem. that said, of course, we're looking at all of that. we're trying to, you know, gather the best intelligence we can and take a look at what options we might have should we be asked to provide those to the national command authority in this country. >> do you think intervening in syria would be difficult? >> i think intervening in syria would be very difficult. >> so what would you do? you're watching thousands o

there are occasions where you now here in washington or in brussels or even perhaps in cairo or benghazipeople are listening to and thinking about what the human rights organizations are saying. .. in the context in some of the recent debates between the republican candidates for the nomination. you attribute as i a understanding at at least in part you attribute the failure to more firmly entrenched the absolute ban on torture on, you know, when you see as the language of rights to include things like rights to housing or rights to food, you know, that really kind of in your mind i think call into question the meaning of rights and the enforceability of rights, your suggestion as by invoking the right language in those areas the advocates have weakened the force of the norm against torture. but what i wonder is isn't the state of the debate on torture more for reflection of the limited power of the human rights movement and the fact that these ideas codified on paper in the convention against torture and other human rights instruments that they are not fully understood, appreciated, acc

in benghazi, people gathered in liberty square for friday prayers, which later turned into celebrations. waving the libyan flag, many cheered for a revolution in syria, where government forces continue to crack down on opposition protesters. harry mcpherson, who served as counsel and special counsel to president lyndon johnson, has died. mcpherson also served as president johnson's chief speechwriter from 1966 to 1969. in 1968, he worked on one of the major addresses of johnson's presidency, when he announced an end to the bombing of north vietnam. and as the president discussed with mcpherson, he had a late addition to the speech-- the stunning announcement that he would not seek another term in office. >> i've been working on it for almost three months. i said i think it's okay, mr. president. he said, "i have an ending that i've added." i said, "i've heard that." he said, "do you know what's in it?" i said, i think so." "what do you think about that?" i said, "i'm very sorry, mr. president. he said, thank you, partner. i'll see you." >> sreenivasan: mcpherson went on to spend the res

they've made the clear, don't you what t options are and even in libya they were there because of benghazi but ty were moving out and not going to be in the lead. >> rose: then i don't understand how to interpret their actions. for itance... >> this is not about the united states, though. this is reall about syria and it's about ruia supplying arms to the huge military contracts with syria. yes? yes? >> i'm not privy to details but probably yes, probably yes. which is going to be like small change compared with u.s. miliry supplies into the region and hundred and billions of dollars. yes, we do. yes, we do have certain contracts, we do have certain relationships and for us being russian i would say probably that it's less difficult than for some others simply overnight to change ones view about a 30-year-old ally and see him cruelly put in the cage. >> rose: ah! so here's what i hear you saying. that russia unlike the united states and what it did in egypt with mubarak will not do that in syria and yr long relationship with the assad family. >> it's not our style. and not the family. we ha