years ago when he gave his infamous speech where he threatened to exterminate the population of benghazithis is not a man that has changed. this is a man who has learned the tricks of performance. this is someone who understands rule by one man and rule by tribe. libyans have experienced that for many years. he can find friends around the border. i'm sure he will find friends that want to adopt that tribal clothing, but today libya needs a consensus figure, someone that wants to turn that chapter over. wearing the clothes your father wore when you threatened the libyan population is not something that indicates you are a consensus figure, it indicates you are divisive. it is the mother of all ironies that today saif al-islam gaddafi is trying to exercise his democratic rights to pursue a presidential campaign against the very system him and his father chose to brutally put down as a movement during the february 17 revolution. this is a man who chose his father against the libyan people, against his own rhetoric in the years he was at the embassy, and chose to put down a pro-democracy mov

for the republicans for the longest time it was benghazi.ng, well, surely the american people will find the perfect phone call boldly illegal, and a lot of people fear we're heading into that same dynamic with the one-six committee. talk about the gulf between what you historians will write about 1/6 and how the republicans will react in dismissing whatever the findings are of the committee. >> absolutely. january 6th is arguably one of the most important days in the -- it's not even arguable. it's one -- strike the adverb. it's one of the most important days in the history of the republic because since 1812 no one had done this. the confederacy didn't get that far in -- during the civil war and in 1861 when there were threats to the electoral count, it didn't happen. but it happened in 2021 and so historically it will be a breaching of the constitutional order and you can argue about whether it was inspired by or incited by -- i don't think anybody can argue but that it was inspired by the defeated president, incitement, we had an impeachme

and you use benghazi, it is seen as, a vehicle for an ideology. and it kind of doesn't matter what the facts are. and i think that, i know, the january 6th will bloom incredibly large in the american story. and we have to do everything we can to make sure doesn't happen again. >> a man who looms large in the history of this broadcast, and in the hearts of his friends, jon meacham, our thanks, enjoy your weekend, thank you for coming on, always great to have you. and a quick note, here, earlier this week an on screen graphic misidentified the lawyer for steve bannon. we said his name correctly, but his name was typed incorrectly on the screen, he is david show and, not dog. now, having established that, to the picture we're looking at, it will take the final break, and when we come back we'll tell you how history was made today. how history was mad today. [♪♪] did you know, you no longer need to visit a dermatologist to get access to top skincare ingredients? introducing dermageek featuring top dermatologist recommended ingredients and 0% fillers.

benghazi. imagine how different 2016 would have been if benghazi had not been a thing. >> nbc news is a media partner for aspen. i want to say that both hearings were consequential because we learned what the former president was capable of, and we learned what his party was capable of. the fact that they heard that evidence, that searing evidence, especially in that second impeachment, and still let him off, kind of told you who the party is and what they're willing to accept in exchange for power. i want to play mike pence. so mike pence is someone who has struggled mightily to kind of reconcile the high and important position he had and the democracy it's supposed to hold with what he did or didn't do on january 6. here he is. he was speaking to students. mike pence confirmed that eastman and trump sought to confirm the election as unconstitutional. here is him doing that. >> on the night of the 5th or the morning of the 6th, someone in white house convinced you that it would destroy your ho

the republicans did with benghazi, even though mccarthy admitted it was a harassment vehicle, largely. the perfect phone call, democrats were convinced that when americans heard the truth, they would get this guy. they did not. democrats are convinced that running against trump still has an upside, even though they learned of the country in the commonwealth of virginia. how should we look at one six, especially year all in your party when at a time to buy gasoline, eggs, you need a mortgage broker? >> well, brian, this will sound like a west wing episode but, you kind of have to put the politics secondary here. we came this close to losing our democracy between november of the election year, and january six. adam schiff put it right, yes, we want to find out what happened and i agree with a b. once that gets aired, it will hold the accountability of this. maybe it is a deterrent so that january six 2025 we are not having this again. if this is all voters are, hearing it would be a mistake. we passed the infrastructure bill, there may be the build back better plan coming on its heels.

you know, reagan did it, bush d it on benghazi.cision, one that has happened many times before and i think it is unlikely that the courts will try to unwind it. >> and as former deputy director of the fbi, wanted to get your take on today's verdict in georgia all three men found guilty in the murder of ahmaud arbery. what were your thoughts when you saw those verdicts come in snin? ? >> i was impressed with the prosecution's case. i thought they did an amazing job. some of the defense attorneys' statements and decisions in their course of representing their clients were a head-shaking and offensive and i thought really appealing to the lowest common denominator in that jury making like overtly racist arguments hoping maybe that one juror would go their way. incredibly satisfying to see that that didn't happen. again, this jury seemed to really just focus on the evidence, they seemed to have gone through the charging -- the jury instructions very carefully and rendered a considered and deliberate judgment which i think really speaks

hillary's emails benghazi lock her up. build a wall. they accept all the error of the.ere always on defense, and you cannot win that way. we have to take our messaging, throw it out and start from scratch. people need to know where we stand. for what they're voting for. what we're looking toward. in the need to know in six words or less. these concepts of who we are what we believe in and what will fight for need to be repeated, from the top of the party right on down to the smallest county clerk, and we all need to say it exactly the same way. the other side is a little propaganda machine. fox news, and its subsidiaries, an unregulated social media. they lie without consequence. and stand as a unified front. the major media might be filled with liberal, mines but they don't work for the democrats, they work for profit. whatever gets the most ads on the screen gets the day. that's how we got donald trump. the only way to stop this is is to have a counter message. that your worms its way into the american people. here is built on confusion. we counter hate with understan

hillary's emails, benghazi, lock her up, build the wall, they sucked all the air out of the room.way. we need to take our messaging and start from scratch. people need to know what we stand for and they know to know it in six words or less. we need to repeat it down to the smallest county clerk and we need to say it the exactly right way. the other side is a propaganda machine. they lie without consequence, are masters of spin, and stand as a unit front. the mainstream media works for prochlt whatever gets the eyeballs on the screen wins the day. that's how we got donald trump t. only way to stop the december semination of lies is to have a countermessage that ear worms its way into the american psyche. fear is built on confusion. we counter hate with understanding, the same way we will counter apathy. we need to sell what it is we stand for and sell it in a way people will hear. it's not our party that's on the line, it's democracy, and that is a race we can't afford to lose. >> so are you getting the emerging theme here? the woman in california, lee mcgowan who calls herself pol

the republicans did with benghazi, even though mccarthy admitted it was a harassment vehicle largely. call, democrats were convinced that when americans heard the truth, they would get this guy. they did not. democrats are convinced that running against trump still has an upside even though they learned to the contrary in the commonwealth of virginia. so how should we look at 1/6, especially your role in your party at a time when to buy bacon, eggs, gasoline, you need a mortgage broker. >> well, brian, you know, i really -- this is going to sound like a "west wing" episode, but you kind of have to put the politics secondary here. i mean, we came this close to losing our democracy between november of the election year and january 6th. adam schiff put it right, yes, we want to find out what happened and i agree with a.b., i think, once that gets aired, i think it will raise the significance of this. and hold people accountable, but the most important thing may be as a deterrent so january 6th 2025, we're not faced with this again. you've got to follow ef lead. if this is all voters are

this has been done over and over again by republicans and democrats, as recently as benghazi is the biggeste that i can be reminded up. i want to make sure that we protect that power going forward and in the future no matter who's in the white house or no matter who's in the majority in either chamber of congress. >> congresswoman mace, i appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> next, the jury in the kyle w rittenhouse trial deliberating for three days and still no verdict. does that tell us something important? >>> and china totally avoiding answering any questions about a tennis star who vanished after accusing a top chinese official of rape. the head of the women's tennis association is my next guest. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes must be carried across all roads and all bridges. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dr

. >> -- before the house of representatives about the tragedy at benghazi. it's not always pleasant but our system is built around checks and balances. much more on our breaking news. steve bannon has been indicted by a federal grand jury on two charges of criminal contempt of congress. everyone stick around. we'll squeeze in a quick break. we'll be right back. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ kevin! kevin? kevin. oh nice. kevin, where are you? kevin?!?!? hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. it's the season of smiling. and at aspen dental, we make it easy t

mentioned in the durham probe of hillary clinton -- he was clinton's deputy chief of staff during benghazi" you believe this screams conflict of interest, you have the floor, how come? >> all right, first of all, the attorney general's council, special assistant overseeing the investigation durham is making is jake sullivan's wife. the wife is overseeing the investigation of her husband. jake sullivan has known, open secret that sullivan was the one in the campaign and after the 2016 election who was feeding the media, all sorts of information about donald trump collusion, steele dossier, donald trump never won the election without help from the russians. he was feeding what we now know was a big lie. he would have known it was a big lie. >> bill: if this was an open secret, did mueller interview him? do we know the answer? >> this is a key question, bill, was he interviewed? was he interviewed during the hillary e-mail scandal and during russia-gate with mueller? two times he would be on record. anybody can lie to the press, that is not a crime d. he lie to the f.b.i.? if they have texts

it was not long ago that we had the benghazi hearings and that committee was created in the same matter hillary clinton showed up. she did not ignore her subpoena. as someone who was on oversight and a ranking member of the subcommittee, i will protect the rights of congress to call people to testify and if they do not show up, to hold them in contempt regardless of their political affiliation, republican, or democrat, regardless of who was in the -- who is in the white house. that is an important function of the government. those things are really important. but the letter that i sent to dr. fauci, i had no idea that it was going to blow up that big. i worked on many pieces of legislation that were bipartisan, including the free app that was burst -- that was inspired by britney spears and conservatorships. that was a big one. but when we start talking about animal rights, whether it is britney spears or animal rights and the beagle issues we are investigating come of these are areas bringing the country together and if it takes calling dr. fauci out over the murder of 44 puppies that