you know, it gets back to ese mutually benicial retionships that like friendips.natural selectioseems to have equipp us to enter into friendships. and pa of that equipment seems to be because friendshs are mutually beneficial. they're good. i meanfriendless people don't do well in society. anone of the tools it seems to haveiven us is that we feel guiltyf we neglect a friend or beay a friend. okay? so these feelings of glt and these feelin that there is some kind of moral tru out there that sometimes we fall th is explicable in terms of naral selection. don't think you need a god t explain th. onhe other hand if you separatelyonclude that there is such thing as moral truth and you want to try to useour consence, which certainly is impeect as natural selection shaped it, okay? it's not bitself a reliable guide to moral condu, i think. and so if you wa to shape the conscience ia way that makes it better guide to pursing moral uths religious belief is, you knowone certainly defensible and mbe valid way to dthat. >> mers: but you're not saying th one has to be religio