they think the folks didn't get it right in and benjamin franklin's case he was 70 years old when he became a rebel and an franklin's case it allows me to tell an interesting side in a personal site of the same story of william franklin who is the another figure that i focus on the william franklin remains a loyalists. benjamin franklin became a rebel and william franklin became the loyalists in the sun was the more conservative one. the sun was the one who stuck with the status quo so this is why wrote the book and these are the stories that i try to tell. >> you do it in a really fascinating way. conventional american revolution narratives usually begin or so they are taught in schools and such as beginning with the signing of the declaration of independence or more accurately with the battle of lexington and concord but in your book you take the roots of it back not only to the french and indian war but even in the decade before that and you see the roots of this brewing bifurcation as going back long before there was an actual conflict whereas as you also point out for benjamin fr

in benjamin franklin's case he was 70 when he became a rebel. and franklin's case allows me to tell an interesting side and a personal side of the same story in his son william franklin was another think i focus on but william franklin remained a loyalist. benjamin franklin became a rebel. william franklin remained the loyalist. thee sun was a more conservative one. the sun was the one who stuck with the status quo. this is what i wrote the book and this is a story i try to tell. >> well, you do it in a really fascinating way. now, conventional american revolution narrative usually begin, or so they are taught in schools and such, as beginning with the signing of the declaration of independence, or more accurately with the battle of lexington and concord. but inal your book you take the roots of it back, not only to the french and indian war, but even in the decade before that. and you see the roots of this brewing bifurcation as going back long before the was an actual conflict, whereas as you also point out, for benjamin franklinn well into 177

so william franklin split with his father of this version of who are you going to be loyal to benjamin franklin said, my loyalty is to my new country william franklin said no, my royalty is to my existing country and william franklin held onto his position in a world the governor of new jersey, the newly appointed governor of new jersey hello to the position as long as he could but when things changed, he was driven by force from his office and he was arrested and was held in custody for many months and became - and eventually he was exchanged in aed prisoners mate was allowed to go to new york city. i said earlier, that was a hotbed of realism and from there he organized a loyalists militia that actually engaged in guerrilla warfareap against patriots forces across the hudson river he indeed became that he criticize the british government toward the end of the war for not fighting hard enough and giving up too soon we think of the last revolutionary wars the battle of yorktown in 1781 and it was, they had to surrender and the british could have f kept fighting but they decided as we spoke of e

they've teamed up for the new film, "benjamin franklin."♪ ♪ ( applause ) ( cheers and applause ). >> stephen: there you go. a full house. that's exactly right. >> we're back. >> stephen: good to see you both. >> nice to see you. >> stephen: ken, welcome back. >> nu. >> stephen: mandy, welcome back to broadway. >> oh, my god. i'm telling you. this is the first time i've been in a theater since the pandemic started. >> stephen: oh, seriously. wow. >> i'm telling you, it's really -- >> stephen: it's a nice feeling, isn't it? >> thank you all for bringing me back to life! ( cheers and applause ) >> stephen: now y'all-- >> oh, my god! >> stephen: y'all have been working-- how long have you guys been working on this-- thecumeyn franklin. >> i think 250 years? >> it only feels like that. >> stephen: how long have you guys been working together on it? spoiler alert, mandy voices benjamin franklin. >> we have been working virtually a year and a half, a little bit more. and tonight is the first time we've met person to person. so in the dressing room

benjamin franklin. he would become world famous in the british empire and george washington was never, well he wasn't a very excitable character so he didn't get excited about the british empire. benjamin franklin was an enthusiast of the empire. he thought it was the greatest thing going and while he might have because it was within the british empire and under the auspices in which the opportunities the empire provided, benjamin franklin became the most famous american of his time. if there's never been a revolutionary war it's entirely possible the world wouldn't have bheard of washington he was a planner and would have lived as a planner and that would have been that. you write the declaration of independence and famous but if there's no independence there's no independence. people never heard of him because he was a world famous scientist. he was an enthusiast of the british empire but he turned against the british empire and the striking thing about franklin is it's very common to thinks of rebell

visiting what is now called the benjamin franklin institute of technology in boston to me best invokes franklin's spirit, not just because it's a historic building, there are murals along the top of the ceiling of the lobby showing scenes from franklin's life with great quotes. you walk through that school and you see young people learning trades, they are not sitting at their desk passively, they are working at 3d printers, they are welding, wrenching. the president at the school, i visited several times, he said to me the principles of learning the trade in franklin's time and our time have not changed that much. you are trying to solve a problem to help a customer, more efficient, better. people keep asking me, we have the fourth industrial resolution and robots are taking over, and we are training students to fix the robots. there is always going to be used for our graduates. even though many people do not think about it until a door needs repairing. he said to me, walking through these halls, i am seeing us creating the middle class. that is a revolutionary act in this country. su

a marine guard said that is writing desk were benjamin franklin signed the treaty of paris. first thought was, what is the treaty of paris again? i started talking to the marine about franklin. he has considered the father of the foreign service. he spent 20 of his last 30 years overseas. i felt really stupid for the last hour. i know intimate details about chinese emperors and dynasties, but i do not know the origins of my own country. when i went back to the hotel room, i started googling and i fell down a few franklin hold. click left click in i read his last will and testament. it blew me away. i said a, how did i not know any of this and b, why has nobody written about this? i know it is time to write when the book i want to read it does not exist. host: it is not a full biography, but a story of his will. the title of your book is "benjamin franklin's last bet". we are going to have a lot of time to get more the details. give me the thumbnail sketch of what you did with his will. michael: he settle scores and made sure further at least in the next 200 years, americans

well, i'll stop i'll start with benjamin franklin who's everybody's popular grandfather figure even in the hamilton play the one thing that they left out of the play was benjamin franklin because the play right said if you let him and he'll take over everything but worldwide probably are best known founding father was benjamin franklin. he was the inventor. he was the guy with the wheelbarrow gathering up scraps of garbage to make soap. he was writing in autobiography that generations of students had to read but he was also sort of the quintessential new american so i i've studied him a lot and what i've learned about him for one thing is that he was totally honest and very frugal but every once in a while, he could be very naive. for example when he was finishing up as our ambassador to france and had put together the french alliance with the king when he was coming home. he got the traditional gift that the french king gave to diplomats when they were going home, which was often a snuff box. the country was the french were addicted to grinding up tobacco and sniffing on it and you've

well, i'll stop i'll start with benjamin franklin who's everybody's popular grandfather figure even in the hamilton play the one thing that they left out of the play was benjamin franklin because the play right said if you let him and he'll take over everything but worldwide probably are best known founding father was benjamin franklin. he was the inventor. he was the guy with the wheelbarrow gathering up scraps of garbage to make soap. he was writing in autobiography that generations of students had to read but he was also sort of the quintessential new american so i i've studied him a lot and what i've learned about him for one thing is that he was totally honest and very frugal but every once in a while, he could be very naive. for example when he was finishing up as our ambassador to france and had put together the french alliance with the king when he was coming home. he got the traditional gift that the french king gave to diplomats when they were going home, which was often a snuff box. the country was the french were addicted to grinding up tobacco and sniffing on it and you've

but why today is an old dead white man like benjamin franklin relevant? >> ben franklin is the historical figure we most need today. he's the person who tried to unite colleges, to dissipate the discussions and ideologies. he was a person most most connected science and statecraft . believed about the importance of saying let's not jump to conclusions but have the experiments made whether it was about lightning or taxation. he tied us together with the poster syndrome so he did so much but the main thing is the archetypal moral life whether it be our nation's moral life, a quest for self-improvement but the flaws that needed to be faced later in his life so he could help rectify them. the most obvious was that he enslaved to people when he left his print job in philadelphia and then he becomes appalled at that concept. he talked about public education in your book and the panel earlier . he starts to think, the economies of the education in philadelphia and the associates of doctor gray because they had public schools to teach children of slaves and freed

is an old dead white man like benjamin franklin relevant. yeah, ben franklin is the historical figure we most need back today. he's the person who helped try to unite. the colonies to dissipate the passions and the hatreds and the ideologies. he was a person who most connected science to statecraft believed as that thing as eclipse showed about the importance of saying let's not jump to conclusions. let's have the experiments be made whether it was about lightning or whether it was about taxation or he tied us together with the postal system. so he did so much but the main thing is the arc of his moral life. i think represents the ark of our nation's moral life a quest for self-improvement, but deep flaws that needed to be faced later in his life so that he could help rectify them the most obvious was that he enslaved two people when he owned his print shop in philadelphia and then he becomes appalled at that concept and you talked about public education both in your book and on the panel earlier. he starts two things. he educate the academy

anything benjamin franklin gives us a guide? >> but he believes it comes from the middle class and small business to be able to grow. starting enterprise. entrepreneurial culture. and then and then to lose a bigm governments but also bigts corporations but i'm like you believing in the americano system of free market and capitalism but we don't think big corporations those in my class have great ideas for services but the main thing they worry about about facebook and google if it becomes good. we have too have a system. >> and to make it equitable my wife kathy is very involved which is to have a revolving fund of people unlike me to have an aunt or uncle who could help. so to make sure everybody has that opportunity to start something the.ad >> the last point i would like you to address because we are here at tulane and in many ways like the great american runiversities to laying grappled with the role of higher education i would like you to reflect on what you think the role is and what worries you for help and encouragementd

tonight on q and a, michael meyer, author of benjamin franklin's last bet talks about franklin's microending scheme and its legacy. >> in his will he says it is my opinion that good apprentices make good citizens, and he made a point of saying early on in order for our republic to survive we need people who have their ear to the ground, who understand the effects of policy at the grassroot level of taxation, legislation. tradespeople, he said, circulate in the community, they interact with people of different classes, different breeds, different origins on a daily basis read -- daily basis. announcer: michael meyer tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to you and a -- q and a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now out. -- if confirmed ketanji brown jackson would be the first african-american woman to serve on the high court. watch live coverage beginning at 10:00 eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org or watch on our free video app, c-span now. announcer: c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing yo

sunday on q&a, university of pittsburgh professor michael meyer author of benjamin franklin's last betks about his micro lending scheme. >> and his will he said it is my opinion that good apprentices make good citizens. he made a point of saying early on in order for our republic to survive we need people who have their year to the ground. who understand the effect of policy at the grass roots level, taxation, legislation, tradespeople, he said circulate any community. -- in a community. they interact people of the different origin a daily basis of these the people we want representing us. >> sunday night on a p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of the podcasts on all the -- on the free c-span now app. >> next houses -- under the president's request, health and human services would be given $127.3 billion in discretionary spending and 1.7 billion and mandatory spending authority. this runs between have powers

>> i know elon musk loves benjamin franklin, and he is an inventor in things that are difficult, physicalis notion is not just, you know, creating a facebook page, which you can do in a dorm or a space engine he felt like doing the hard work and connecting sciences to humanities to business would be a good thing and franklin was a printer this whole twitter thing amuses me i can't wait to talk to musk this week about it because franklin had had wrote something called an apology for printers saying when truth and falsity have fair play and there's a fairground, truth will win out so he very much believed that in the first amendment. >> when you talk to musk this week come back to us >> i want to go to that cyber rodeo in austin. >> even that's all he had to do was poor richards almanac. >> three people can keep a secret if two are dead >> we live by early to bed and early to rise. how did he know late night tv would suck there's nothing past 8:00 to be up for >> walter in my film was on at 8:00 you can stream it on all pbs platforms anytime you want, joe. >> ben franklin would have been ma

. >> in his well benjamin franklin left b#1000 to the cities of boston and philadelphia.he money was to be loaned out in small increments at low interest rates to tradesmen who wanted to start their own businesses. one day on q&a university of pittsburgh professor michael meyer author of benjamin franklin's last best talks about franklin's micro lending scheme and assesses hislegacy . >> in the will he says it's my opinion that good apprentices make good citizens. and he made apoint of saying early on in order for our republic to survive , we need people who have their ear to the ground, understand the effect of policy at the grassroots level. on taxation, of legislation, tradespeople he said circulate in the community. they interact with people of different classes of different creeds, different origins on a daily basis. these are the people wewant in our government representing us . >> michael meyer with his book benjamin franklin's last that at 8 pm eastern on c-span's human day. you can listen to q and a on podcast, free c-span now app. c-span is your unfilteredview o

so on the one hand the strange and radical proposal to s taxidermy of benjamin franklin g allows us to see some of the nd anxieties of the early republic, especially when there's a lot of fear of political instability aw the luminaries, the most visible figures of the nation's founders, were no longer alive and in full view of american citizens. but it also allows us to see hoh peel and his contemporaries were imagining the role that museums and cultural institutions could play within the social and intellectual life of the nation. what should they collect, preserve and display? how might material objects be part of a process of constructing knowledge about history, science and culture?f and who will participate in determining what we choose to hold in our sight and value? so these kinds of questions were really central to the early sh history of american museums as i explore more broadly in my book and will say a little bit more about tonight. i want to emphasize a few larger ideas. so first just about the kind of shifts that were taking place during the late 18th and early 19th centu

there's a lot in benjamin franklin that makes you clinch and we see franklin not as a perfect person,evolving to see if he could become more perfect. >> joining me now is aw award-winning filmmaker ken burns. ken, i look forward to your documentaries like normal people look forward to marvel move veels. today is a huge day for me. benjamin franklin lived to, what, 84 years old. he's a one-man human carnival, but also very complicated. >> very complicated. he's the most important american of the 18th century without a doubt. he's our best writer, our original humorist, the greatest scientist in the world, not just america. he's not a revolutionary, john, until he's 69 years old. he's only got 15 years to go. he helps edit the declaration, making unbelievable improvements to jefferson's beautiful document. he's dispatched to fence because he's the only famous american in the world to secure their help, and without him, without that help, there's no victory at yorktown. so no franklin, no us. he comes back and helps forge the compromises, some of them tragic of the constitution that enab

and of course your biography, benjamin franklin stand out because franklin was an enigma to so many it'sn extraordinary interpreter of history of cultureld is a dead white man relevant? the person who helped try to unite the colonies in the ideologies believed is the clip show us not jump to conclusions as have the experimentsli be mae tie them together with the postal system. he did so much but the main thing is the arc of his moral life i think represents the arc of our nation need to be faced later in his life he could help rectify becomes appalled at the concept he starts to things, the academy for the education of youth in philadelphia which becomesss pen and the associates of doctor which was a public school teach children of slaves and free slaves. then having done this compromise he always believed we had to make compromises at times. when to make an compromise and went to see the entry for a moral principle. he got it wrong a few times. i got a list of every time he got it wrong. the last one is tolerating slavery the abolition of slavery as pretty early for that in creating a r

so feel goes on to note that he's pretty sure that benjamin franklin would be on board with this idea and he's imagining how these specimens could add to the collections of natural history that he's assembling in his museum. so on the one hand the strange and radical proposal to taxidermy benjamin franklin allows us to see some of the anxieties of the early republic and especially at this moment where there's there's a lot of fear of political instability as you know, the the luminaries the most visible figures of found the nation's founders would we're no longer alive and in full view of american citizens. but it also allows us to see how keel and his contemporaries were imagining the role that museums and cultural institutions could play within the social and intellectual life of the nation. what should they collect preserve and display how might material objects be part of a process of constructing knowledge about history science and culture and who will participate in determining what we choose to hold in our site and value. so these kinds of questions, we're really central to the

it's accelerated and guess we have to do too much in too little time. benjamin franklin's act. we think it aside. benjamin franklin tells us to remember the time is money is not always that's guess because money is notoriously scaffold. otherwise, it would lose its function as money. as uncle said about these days, we've extended that building. if we might say to our children or ourselves, time is education as a whole. cultural capitalist, pierre body recalls l. m site was about to sit around and educate yourself loving, but they learn a language will read, a newspaper oper copied. you can also cite and time is health and but to me, physical capital, the source and you could go jogging or meditating below what all resources that we lead in a competitive system to contest. foreign dental time can be social capital, and from that you could meet with friends or call somebody or be active on social media. i describe it as a relationship with the world and ali a reality that's always asking where we can invest energy and resources in order to get the highest possible return. i talke

. benjamin franklin tells us to remember the time is money is not always, it's guess because money is notoriously scaffold, otherwise it would lose its function is money is uncle said about these days. we've extended that co building, as we might say, to our children or ourselves. time is education as a whole. cultural capitalist pierre body recalls. no, it's title, so don't just sit around and educate yourself loving, but they learn a language will read, a newspaper oper copied. you can also cite and time is health, but to me physical capital, the source and you could go jogging or meditating below. all resources that we lead in or competitive system to conduct foreign dental time can be social capital. and we'll from that you could meet with friends or call somebody or be active on social media. i describe it as a relationship with the world and a li, a reality that's always asking where we can invest energy and resources in order to get the highest possible return. i talked to her, i don't have time or not enough time to be does that phrase sound familiar? the comfort i liked or mo

or ask a question of any of the people you wrote about who were not alive leonardo, einstein, benjamin franklinwho would you want to mostst meet with? have dinner with? most question you would like to gask them? >> franklin is the guy you most want to hang around with. he loved inventing things he want to show them off. farmers daughter's jokes which we shouldn't do now. to me, leonardo is the great mystery. just like the mona lisa there are no sharp lines everything is slightly blurred. with him it's always slightly blurry and i would love to drill down with him on how he just loved every subject imaginable he thought of himself as an engineer and scientist not as an artist. ask if you could interview and have dinner with anybody jefferson winston churchill. >> of this interesting theological questions most want to go back to ruby passover in the common era there rest the soup to what extent in real time what part of that historical event understand their larger significance? or was it just a quick that went bad? that's the main thing. >> that would be an easy interview? >> that have the print

. >> michael myers with his book benjamin franklin last bet sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast are free c-span now at. >> arkansas republican senator tom cotton spoke at the republican national lawyers association with the animal conference in the washington area creed following his remarks the association presented him with the award named for president reagan attorney general >> thank you all very much, thank you for the kind introduction and thank you for the warm welcome. it is great to be back at the republican lawyers association. someone described as group as a lesson or to group of the federal society. you have to look around the room and i'm not sure if that's accurate or not. that was an april fools joke. not about the federal society but about you. the tip of the spear for the courtrooms and places all across the country to ensure republicans get a fair shape and the democrats as partisan as it may be, played by the rules. when republican campaign needs a legal brief at 3:00 a.m. on election night the

or ask a question of any of the people you wrote about who were not alive leonardo einstein benjamin franklin. who would you want to most meet with and have dinner with and what question would you want to ask them? you know franklin's guy. you must want to hang around with he loved and vending thing. you'd want to show him off the new devices. what's the girls? yeah. well farmer's daughters jokes us type of things we shouldn't do now but to me leonardo's the great mystery just like the mona lisa where there's no sharp lines everything slightly schmado. it's called blurred. with him, it's always slightly blurry and i would just love to drill down with him on how he just loved every subject of matter. he thought of himself as an engineer in scientist not as an artist. now john if you could interview and how have dinner with anybody you wrote about who's not alive, but would you like to ask jefferson or winston churchill or roosevelt? what would you like to ask them? well, this raises interesting theological questions about dead or alive, but of all the nights i would most want to go back to and

>> benjamin franklin, i don't have all day i have to go back to see my family >> what family >> why,amily ♪ [ "addams family" theme plays [ light laughter ] that's my last name. ♪ [ light laughter ] >> steve: wow. [ applause ] i concur >> jimmy: i found it odd well, this is interesting. researchers in japan created a -- [ laughter ] what's the problem >> steve: i don't -- [ light laughter ] i don't know what that was supposed to be [ laughter ] >> jimmy: what do you think you saw? >> steve: i thought i saw -- >> jimmy: yeah >> steve: benjamin franklin -- >> jimmy: yeah >> steve: right? >> jimmy: hey, okay -- >> steve: john adams - >> jimmy: that's correct >> steve: -- chatting by a a modern day coffee station. [ laughter ] >> jimmy: yeah, like a -- like a keurig, or something >> steve: right? they're drinking in demitasse cups >> jimmy: yes. >> steve: he drank his coffee - >> jimmy: he's like -- >> steve: first of all, so hot, that he had to go "ouch, ouch, ouch." >> jimmy: he said, "hot. >> steve: "hot." and then john adams drank it, and his eyes went -- whoop -- like that. [ laught

it was benjamin franklin who, on behalf of the united states of america, worked in france, you can thensh all the time american united states. please tell me, is he a clever one or is he a clever one, because for me it is smarter, the one who is clever. and now they are called united states smart. dima is smart. bravo worked. there, as an envoy of the consul of the treasurer , representatives of the military maritime department, the bureau of evidence of assistance to prisoners, and so on. your honor, i went to work for you at once and so and so and this and this and this happened in hong kong and in hong kong, but it's a good fellow, well done. dima is a wonderful smart girl, but the fact is that it’s not diman who is standing on the red carpet. and now we’ll see, she’s a smart chancellor. there's just a very precise answer . there should be. russian ministry of foreign cases from a certain point why is it please note this is the 19th century, but everything is very modern and increasingly began to pay attention to the east, for according to the observations of the chancellor. gorchako

headline the federal reserve, which failed the whole gamut of feelings, the artists handed over to benjamin franklinng seen without emotion on $100 bills. their bytes are not printed, too much almost two trillion helicopter money while the white house was stepping on the gas pedal the fed should have put on the brakes, but it did not. the american recession hangs over the world economy, in particular the poor countries with an average. income could lose a lot from a sharp fed rate hike that would scare away capital and weaken their exchange rates, especially if the global downturn simultaneously reduces demand for their exports inflation to the us 8.5% figures that the country has not seen for 40 years, the real picture, the businessman tesla founder elon musk is even worse sure according to him, the authorities underestimate the value of inflation in the us higher than in official statistics . no parts to electric cars are getting more expensive and even more unaffordable, americans of any race of any background are suffering from crippling record high inflation, biden, poor americans are suffering

sunday on q&a the university of pittsburgh professor michael meyer author benjamin franklin's last betlks about the micro lending scheme and assesses its legacy. >> in the well he says is my opinion that apprentices make good citizens. he made a point of saying early on in order for a republic to survive we need people who have the ear to the ground and understand the effects of policy at the grassroots level of taxation, legislation, tradespeople circulate in the community and they interact with people of different classes in different creed and different origins on a daily basis. these are the people that we want our government representing us. >> michael myers with his book benjamin franklin last bet sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast are free c-span now at. >> arkansas republican senator tom cotton spoke at the republican national lawyers association with the animal conference in the washington area creed following his remarks the association presented him with the award named for president reagan attorney general >> thank y

benjamin franklin said that the last refuge of scoundrel is patriotism. but i have two demurrer on that. the first refuge is the schedule print there was a time in this country were people were willing to throw themselves into a hail of bullets to keep from being seen, but now to get them to wear a mask is too much for certain people. ironically, these are the same people who usually rate -- wave a flag in your face. winding about the so-called liberal stacking in the federal courts, and just a few days ago, one of trumps judges at the ada -- that the ada said he wasn't qualified to be a judge, and he was not -- he decided he was qualified to be a public health expert. how far over a cliff this country has gone since trump was installed in office to run amok for four years. host: i'm going to leave it there. the wall street journal reported and you allude to this earlier that the judge made a decision on saying that they concluded that they exceeded the authority granted to it under decades of federal public health law, and they violated rules and procedu

book with the introduction with madison and jefferson weighing in on what they saw including benjamin franklinso i know we know it's wrong but you can't put yourself in our time and say i know exactly what life was like in 1750. we use to understand that. some of thehe things they say yu wonder why they thought it then you find out it turns out it was a different generation. they are not a bad. people are going to look at us and say what were they thinking. actually we are saying that today driving over listening to the radio, watching tv, but i digress. so we see these men get on parallel paths and finally meet when he is doing the research that started two years and two months agot and when they meet the person was frederick douglass. stanley didn't have the time to do it. he waits online, gets online outside the white house and is thereys for two minutes, expects to be there for two days of rich people, poor people, he gets right to his office and he was critical because he didn't move fast enough on a few major issues but sitting in a chair too small he saw every line in his face and saul

has this phrase in it. " each generation discovers benjamin franklin for himself."

benjamin franklin said that the last refuge of scoundrel is patriotism.ut i have two demurrer on that. the first refuge is the schedule print there was a time in this country were people were willing to throw themselves into a hail of bullets to keep from being seen, but now to get them to wear a mask is too much for certain people. ironically, these are the same people who usually rate -- wave a flag in your face. winding about the so-called liberal stacking in the federal courts, and just a few days ago, one of trumps judges at the ada -- that the ada said he wasn't qualified to be a judge, and he was not -- he decided he was qualified to be a public health expert. how far over a cliff this country has gone since trump was installed in office to run amok for four years. host: i'm going to leave it there. the wall street journal reported and you allude to this earlier that the judge made a decision on saying that they concluded that they exceeded the authority granted to it under decades of federal public health law, and they violated rules and procedure