for more on this we're joined by benjamin gedan. he was the south america director on the nation curity council staff during the obama administration. he's now with the woodrow wilson international center for scholars. anisaias medina, he was a senior diplomat at the united nations under nicolas maduro.cl he pubresigned in 2017 in protest of human rights violations. >> thank you very much to you both. m isaiina, let me start with you. this is one of the most pts by the att united states to change a government in latin america in decades. do you sport it? >> first of all, thank you, for having me in your program and anks, pbs for their interest in the dire situation in my country. i not only i but 30 million people support not only the u.s. circumstance but also the latin-american initiative to restore the rule of law, democracy and freedom in venezuela. >> okay. so benjamin gedan let me ask you about some spcifics about what the u.s. has pursued, as we just discussed trying to divert somew of the moneyy from nicolas maduro on oil, w