<benjamin wittes:> "comey really didn't want to go to that meeting. just really doesn't believe the president and the fbi director should have any kind of social relationship or shows of warmth." benjamin wit-tess described in detail how the six-foot-eight comey tried to blend in with the curtains in the back of the room in hopes he would not be spotted. "trump singles him out in a fashion that he regarded as sort of calculated.""he's become more famous than me!" "what he told me was, it was bad enough that he was there, it was bad enough that there was going to be a handshake. there really wasn't going to be a hug. and so if you watch the video, he extends his hand, and comey's arms are really long. and he extends his hand kind of pre-emptively. and trump grabs his hand and kind of pulls him into a hug, but the hug is entirely one sided. comey was just completely disgusted by the episode. he thought it was an intentional attempt to compromise him in public." (steve) the bodies of the santa rosa c

we are joined by benjamin wittes.s the editor in chief of the brookings institution's lawfare blog. and george terwilliger. he served as deputy attorney general under president george h.w. bush. and we thank both of you for joining us tonight. i'm going to start with you, benjamin wittes. you know director comey very well. what do you make of the rationale that the white house is giving the president fired him because of the way he mishandled, they say, the hillary clinton email investigation? >> well, the sudden white house concern for hillary clinton's c- fairness to hillary clinton is a remarkable turn of events. i mean, in the time in which jim comey did the things for which he has now been removed, the only complaint on the part of donald trump was that he had not indicted or recommended that hillary clinton be indicted. the white house actually-- trump actually praised some of the very decision that now form the basis for comey's removal. so it's actually a completely implausible set of rationales, even if some

one, benjamin wittes is not talking before he talks to james comey, right? i don't thinkfr freelancing. i'm sure he checked with him. as you pointed out, brooke, there is a long history of weird handshakes in donald trump. shinzo abe in japan, strange. neil gorsuch when he announces neil gorsuch. yes, donald trump views all of these things -- always remember, what has donald trump spent his years in the run for the presidency being? reality shows, right? he's always staging his moves as power moves. so i think the calling over of comey, the sort of blessing of him, the like, hey, this guy, i can say that i'm famous and he's more famous, all that sort of stuff is very trumpian, it's very reality tv star, it's made for television moments, and he does tait a lot. for a guy like comey, when you're 6'8", you don't blend into the curtains anywhere. >> he should have just not gone. that is an area of deliberate examination here. we're hearing from comey's side and it's strange to believe he doesn't have any influence out of this message about the memo that came out

william brangham sat down with benjamin wittes, editor-in-chief of lawfare.com, to gain some insighto the former f.b.i. director's dealings with president trump during that volatile period of time. william began by asking wittes about the nature of his relationship with comey. >> it's really simple. we're friends. we've been friends for a long time. and contrary to a sort of mythology that has developed, i'm not among his closest friends by any means, or one of his, sort of, intimate advisors. so, i am in no sense talking at his behest. i'm talking about it because i read the "new york times" story the other day that the president had asked for a loyalty oath from him. and that story put, in frankly, sharply menacing terms, a set of comments and anecdotes that he had told me, and i saw them, in light of that story, very differently that i had seen them before-- >> brangham: sharply menacing? >> yeah, i think so. and so i thought about it overnight on fri-- thursday night, and i decided that the public should know about what he had told me. he really spent an enormous amount of energy

<benjamin wittes:> "comey really didn't want to go to that meeting. he just really doesn't believe the president and the fbi director should have any kind of social relationship or shows of warmth." benjamin wit-tess described in detail how the six-foot-eight comey tried to blend in with the curtains in the back of the room in hopes he would not be spotted. "trump singles him out in a fashion that he regarded as sort of calculated.""he's become more famous than me!" "what he told me was, it was bad enough that he was there, it was bad enough that there was going to be a handshake. there really wasn't going to be a hug. and so if you watch the video, he extends his hand, and comey's arms are really long. and he extends pre-emptively. and trump grabs his hand and kind of pulls him into a hug, but the hug is entirely one sided. comey was just completely disgusted by the episode. he thought it was an attempt to compromise him in public." n(catherine) the white house press secretary did not deny the re

. >> that, again, coming from benjamin wittes. took place five days before the dinner where the alleged loyalty oath was requested. with me now, eric blish lauer. he's led "the new york times" relationship on the trump campaign and russia. eric, good to see you again. i think it's important to point out that we're getting this from wittes and "the new york times" today. this was an fbi director who apparently didn't want to play basketball with president obama for the very same reason. but listening to this interview, eric, did it sound like the james comey that you knew and that you covered? >> yeah, i would say so. someone who is uncomfortable in situations where he thinks he might be politically compromised. of course, we didn't realize the significance of that handshake back then. it was just a handshake. maybe half a hug. now as we realize the obvious tension, animosity between the two since the firing, it's taken on all sorts of other implications. it's almost as if the book versions with all the color and grist and behind-t

. >> reporter: benjamin wittes now recalling the day of that infamous hug the day after the inauguration. >> comey didn't want to go to that meeting. he doesn't believe the fbi director and the president should have any signs of a relationship or shows of warmth. >> wittes describes in detail why comey was reluctant to intend. even at 6'8", he tried to blend with the curtains in the hopes he wouldn't be singled out. >> he says mr. trump is calculated. what he told me was it was bad enough he was there, it was bad enough there was going to be a sha handshake, but there really wasn't going to be a hug. if you watch the video, he extends his hand kind of preemptively, and trump grabs the hand and kind of pulls him into a hug, but the hug was entirely one-sided. comey was completely disgusted -- >> disgusted? >> -- disgusted by the episode. he thought it was an intentional intent to compromise him in public. >> reporter: wittes says comey tried to establish boundaries with the president. >> he saw his role as protecting the fbi from the white house. >> reporter: wittes said he called to come

we just heard more of the benjamin wittes interview. but i'm struck by the fact that this friend of james comey would be talking without the approval of james comey. the fact that we are now hearing this from the comey camp, as it were, what message does it send? >> it sends the message that they are not going to go away quietly, which has obviously been more loudly sent by the release of the memo originally. and i think that the behavior that former director comey is kind of rekoilg against does fit with a pattern, because one thing we have seen from president trump is that he pushes against, if not ignores completely, both the legal and custom bounds on the arbitrary exercise of presidential power. he really doesn't see an end to where his authority extends. when he talks about so-called judges, when he talks about the fake news media, when he asks comey in effect to publicly exonerate him before the investigation has really unfolded, those are all examples of someone who does not have the traditional view of checks and balances, i th

. >> benjamin wittes -- sorry, evan, when we hear benjamin wittes' account, we know he's in touch with comey. this is not just any blog we're quoting here. it's an informed person writing an informed account of what comey believes he said to the president. you talked to sources about this all the time. and you speak to people close to comey. what do you find the credible -- credible about that conversation? >> well, i think the credibility -- the most credible part is the fact the president would deem to ask such a question, it's sototally seeing president going straightforward, he's such a straightforward man, straightforward asking comey whether he's under investigation. he wants to know. he also wants to know at the same time he's trying to decide whether comey stays in the job. keep in mind, that's when the conversation is happening at the same time. so i believe that and i can also believe that comey would find a way to answer the question, at least in the moment of what is true. and like you said, that answer might have changed. >> might have chanced. he prepped. he prepped befor

but the hug is entirely one-sided. >> that's benjamin wittes. michael, comey's 6'8", it's kind of hard for him to blend in, tell me why he was so uncomfortable about being there? >> comey was uncomfortable about being seen close to any president, whether it was obama who he once said he wouldn't play basketball with, or if it was trump, someone that a lot of democrats had blamed comey for getting elected. and comey didn't want to go over to the white house for this because he wasn't sure what trump may do or say to him in public. and he thought he had gotten through this ceremony without trump noticing him, but trump called him out, said there is jim, he's more famous than i am, and they had this embrace which made comey very uncomfortable because he thought it jeopardized the independence which he is nearly almost obsessive about trying to protect. >> you can see in that video there donald trump opens his arms and jim comey reaches out his hands before he can get to donald trump, i guess, to try to, in wittes' estimation, stave off a hug. micha

. >> reporter: one of those friends, benjamin wittes, says comey tried to establish boundaries, like the time he attended a white house ceremony two days after the inauguration. >> he stands in the part of the room that is as far from trump as it is physically possible to be. >> oh, and there's jim. >> reporter: trump signals him out. >> he's become more famous than me. >> reporter: in a fashion that he regarded as sort of, you know, calculated. he thought it was an intentional attempt to compromise him in public. >> reporter: the deputy attorney general told lawmakers today that the new special counsel he appointed this week, robert mueller, will have broad latitude to look into all of this, including, anthony, the president's action, and even rosenstein's role in his firing. >> mason: nancy cordes. thank you, nancy. saudi arabia is the first stop on the president's trip. this week, his son, donald trump jr., delivered a commencement address in neighboring united arab emirates. as julianna goldman reports, the younger trump's appearance in dubai is raising new questions about potent

tonight my conversation with benjamin wittes, a friend of director comey.e "new york times" and wrote an account in "law affair" in which he's editor-in-chief. i spoke with him about the encounters that director comey said he was troubled by and why he's going public. why did you decide to speak out? >> i decided to speak out about it because -- and i thought about it very larld. i read the "new york times'" story that jim had been asked to give what effectively amounts to a loyalty oath to the president and i was very shocked and it suddenly crystallized in my mind what a whole lot of these interactions that i had had with him meant and why he had reacted to them the ray he had reacted. i suddenly understood them in a different and frankly in a more menacing and upsetting light than i had at the time that we had had this conversation. >> have you spoken to director comey since he was fired? >> yes. >> can you say how he is, how he's doing? >> i don't want to talk about our conversations. i will say he's going to be fine. you know, he's not somebody who spe

>> the most interesting interviews of the last couple months was benjamin wittes, who is a long-time friend of james comey, and he spoke to jacob weisberg, and he predicted all this. he said based on the comey he kno knows, he expects that james comey will testify in public, probably in a congressional setting, and the thing about james comey, his history is a very good guide to what he's going to do. what he tends to do is explain himself very fully, sometimes in pain stakie in painstaking detail, sometimes in painful detail, some things that are not politically wise because he doesn't think like a politician. for comey almost being tone deaf, he tends to reveal more than the general actor tends to reveal. i think he'll reveal a lot short of private information. >>> they said the disclosure of the investigation smmg from russia's meddling in last ye's electionnd cutting away his staff have driven away possible people in jobs that usually would be coveted. i know a lot of people in the white house have said they hope they don't have to go, hoping these offers don't come through. if w

we turn now to benjamin wittes, editor of the flel blog lawfare at the brookings institution, welcomestart before we get to the comey testimony about the jared story, what is your take of it, give us some perspective. >> it is hard to know what to make of it, it is a shocking set of allegations. it is not clear what they thought they were doing or what it means, if i were an fbi counterintelligence agent i would be very interested in it. and it is the latest in a long series of revelations that put the president's claims that there is nothing between him and russia in a kind of head scratching relief. >> dickerson: yes. and what jared kushner seems to be doing is getting around the existing order of things. give me, back to the question of james comey, somebody you have known for a while. what if the president was just saying, the president just didn't know the rules and was trying to get around -- he has this investigation going on, he just says to james comey, you know,, it was just not obstruction but just a president who is unfamiliar with politics, just didn't know what was going

benjamin wittes, a friend of director comey, said comey has a story to tell and if he were presidentrump, he'd be scared. >> i thought it was interesting and very telling that he declined an opportunity to tell his story in private. he clearly wants to do it in a public setting. i interpret -- >> he was asked to testify in private and he said no. it'll be public. >> i think that is a reflection of the fact that this is a guy with a story to tell. i think if i were donald trump, that would scare me a lot. >> all right. vague because we don't know what that story is. what are you hoping to hear from jim comey, who is expected to testify next week? >> well, ali, certainly, when the president of the united states makes statements or assertions that he did regarding the investigation, regarding now former director comey, and the only one who can provide information about those charges is director comey, i think we need to hear from him for sure. so i think some of these questions are just hanging out there because the president, by his own -- on his own, has raised these questions or made

. >> benjamin witt former fbi director james comey told him how the president put him on the spot two days after the inauguration. >> he stands in a part of the room that is as far from trump as physically can be. trump singles him out in a fashion that he rarlded as sort of, you know, calculated. >> he's become more famous than me. >> comey was just completed will disgusted by the episode. he thought it was an intentional attempt to compromise him in public. >> five days later on january 278th at a white house dinner, the president allegedly asked comey if he would pledge his loyalty. on february 13th, flynn was forced to resign after misleading vice president pence about his contacts with the russian ambassador. the next day president trump spoke to combmy alone in the oval office. comey wrote a memo detailing how he says trump indicated he wanted him to drop the federal investigatio been on the former fbi director o make those memos public and to testify again on capitol hilling but some members of congress indicating that since the appointment o the special counsel, that may compl

. >> noah feldman, benjamin wittes, thank you both. >> a couple important points, number seven, whichhether he records conversations there. >> yes, it does. >> if there are tapes, we now have a national security reason to get control of those tapes. are you listening on capitol hill, republicans? >> okay, gentlemen, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> we have much more ahead on this developing story. stay with us. alright, and befor? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? oh yeah sure... ok, like what? but i thought we were supposed to be talking about investing for retirement? we're absolutely doing that. but there's no law you can't make the most of today. what do you want to do? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. yea. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change. investment management services from td ameritrade. we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen.man. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these ge