- damn him, but one of the committee members, sir bernard jenkin asked i members, sir bernard egal advice or— him why he had not sought legal advice or something _ him why he had not sought legali advice or something authoritative before _ advice or something authoritative before he — advice or something authoritative before he spoke _ advice or something authoritative before he spoke to _ advice or something authoritative before he spoke to the _ advice or something authoritative before he spoke to the houses. advice or something authoritative before he spoke to the houses ofi before he spoke to the houses of parliament— before he spoke to the houses of parliament and _ before he spoke to the houses of parliament and sir— before he spoke to the houses of parliament and sir bernard - before he spoke to the houses of parliament and sir bernard said i parliament and sir bernard said that's— parliament and sir bernard said that's what— parliament and sir bernard said that's what i_ parliament and sir bernard said that's what i would _ parliament and sir bernard said that's what i

. latest by sir bernard jenkin. he's member this committee, he's a member this committee, the members this the other members of this committee durrant, committee, durrant, harriet harman, costa yvonne harman, albert costa yvonne fogg, you as bernard jenkin, as i've mentioned, uncertain . i've mentioned, uncertain. walker they go round in walker they will go round in turn and questioning, which is why we're expecting this to take as it the latest as long as it is. and the latest round of evidence you had that just before boris was before off by bow was in relation to a by the bow was in relation to a gathering november 20 for a gathering in november 20 for a member of staff. there lee cain. the question whether or not the distance thing should have been two metres. boris johnson is saying that it was completely to do that. given the nature of number and how it was as an office and defence to this, as well appears to rely on the fact that it was essential and necessary to have a brief thank you gathering for the of le

, backbenchers, bernard jenkin, who was forensically and pushing him on this particular.dvice, why didn't you have wider advice ? why didn't you have more experts telling you what was right what was wrong? right and what was wrong? absolutely because his assurance that breaking any that he wasn't breaking any rules seems to have been got from his political advice is so relatively junior press secretaries essentially . and the secretaries essentially. and the committee seemed to sort of accept his assertion in the heat of the moment he had rely on the most senior people around and that that was that was the doyle and another senior press secretary. but they then asked, well, after you'd made the statement, surely it was your duty to sort of copperplate to make absolutely sure belt braces that you were telling 100% the truth to parliament so . why truth to parliament so. why didn't you go and speak to a parliamentary lawyer about it? for example , make sure that you for example, make sure that you were telling the truth and there was a lawyer sitting next to him, of course,

this is bernard jenkin, the conservative mp, asking borisjohnson about how the covid rules were followedllowed in downing street. we know that the gathering attracted fixed penalty notices so, in fact, the police have judged that it broke the rules. why did you think it was within the rules? i thought it was essential for work purposes or at least reasonably necessary for work purposes, because for the reason i've given, sir bernard, that we november the 13th was a day in which two senior officials in those senior advisers in government had left theirjobs in very, very difficult and challenging circumstances. and it was necessary to steady the ship. it was necessary to show that there was no rancour, that the business of the government was being carried on. that's what we had to do. that's what i had to do. i wonder what you make of that? well, the spectacle of it, from what you've heard and seen and and boris johnson's defence. well, i didn't think... from what i understand and what i've read and the little bits that i saw and talking to colleagues, i don't think anybody discovered some

i will now invite sir bernard jenkins to ask the first question. >> thank you, chair. as the chair described, we will first consider what knowledge you had of the rules and guidance in place at the time of each of the events you attended or of which you had knowledge. by reminding ourselveses of what you were telling the country about the rules and guidance. and then we'll ask about those gatherings. now you were aware of the importance of following the guidance the government had issued to keep workplaces safe. indeed you previously told the house of commons on the second of september, 2020, and i quote, it's very important to that we get people become into the workplace in a covid-secure way, unquote. then on the 9th of november, 2020, less than a week before the first of the gathering that i'll ask you about, you said at a covid press conference and i quote, neither mass testing nor progress on vaccines are at the present time a substitute for the national restrictions for social distancing and all the rest. so it is all the more important to follow the rules. unquo

so sir bernard jenkin , conservative mp, bernard jenkin, conservative mp, since 1992 and he was one ofr referred to them as being people with all married parents didn't see the time. yeah he has always opposed boris becoming leader. and i remember at the he said that he was going to support michael gove . he said boris michael gove. he said boris would be a disaster. this was a reported in the dail on the 8th of august in the daily mail talking about bernard jenkin and his opposition to boris. talking about bernard jenkin and his opposition to boris . and his opposition to boris. and then finally sir charles walker mp . since 2005, a long standing mp. since 2005, a long standing critic of boris and it's been he is brought in to criticism, especially regards to treating backbenchers like dogs. he said . so what you're saying that is this for various other parties and reasons, this committee are not onside with boris. there's not onside with boris. there's not one support for boris did not one support for boris did not also sir charles walker was there was speculation to have him cross i

i mean, charles walker and mean, in charles walker and bernard of and bernard jenkin, one of them.on south is much if warrington south is very much a red wall johnson and the next one, albert , from the famously one, albert, from the famously italian glaswegian and ice cream family is a man who has expressed no opinion . whether expressed no opinion. whether the has expressed an the chairman has expressed an opinion, that's crucial, but two labour people previous stood down because charles what charles walker was, you know, weighed he considered john bercow's and chris brown stood excluded. actually, i think about. yes they got home. and so he did address to the but even for the hague who is the other labour member if she's expressed a view to . i do not only in the a view to. i do not only in the most general and as much as any opposition mp, but the issue here is not about cake it's not about it's about whether or not the prime minister lied to the house. now that is all that it's about. and if it is proved he lied to the house, then i'm we have in this country. have precedent in

said was we were following the guidance to the best of our right now as is pointed out by sabine bernard jenkin, a senior tory mp and who jenkin, a senior tory mp and who was very much on the attack against boris johnson. yeah if bofis against boris johnson. yeah if boris johnson had said that in then there wouldn't be any of this. there wouldn't be a problem. he was so emphatic there were no rules broken and. can you see how however that how might actually work in boris's favour as favour ultimately and as far as a of people who him a lot of people who support him at think that this is at the moment think that this is like cabal, a cabal who like a cabal, a cabal who basically want to prevent him from into number 10 from going into number 10 ultimately. know, that ultimately. and you know, that probably happen. i don't probably won't happen. i don't think going trigger think this is going to trigger a by—election because they don't have to that have sufficient as to say that he delivered badly misled parliament. that's thing parliament. that's the key thing didn't don't didn't have that do they

the guidance to the best our right now as is best of our right now as is pointed out by sabine bernard jenkin, a senior tory mp and who jenkin, a senior tory mp and who was very much on the attack against boris johnson. yeah if bofis against boris johnson. yeah if boris johnson had said that in then there wouldn't be any of this. there wouldn't be a problem. he was so emphatic there were no rules broken and. can you see how however that how might actually work in boris's favour as far as favour ultimately and as far as a of people who support him a lot of people who support him at think that is at the moment think that this is like a cabal who like a cabal, a cabal who basically want to prevent him from going into number 10 ultimately. know, that ultimately. and you know, that probably happen. i don't probably won't happen. i don't think going trigger think this is going to trigger a by—election because they don't have to say have sufficient as to say that he delivered badly misled parliament. thing parliament. that's the key thing didn't do don't didn't have that do they don't but same i don'

i will now invite sir bernard jenkin to ask the first question. figs now invite sir bernard jenkin toent had issued to keep workplaces safe. indeed, you previously— to keep workplaces safe. indeed, you previously told the house of commons on the _ previously told the house of commons on the 2nd _ previously told the house of commons on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. _ on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. it— on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote. it is— on the 2nd of september 2020 and i quote, it is very important we get people _ quote, it is very important we get people back into the workplace in a covid _ people back into the workplace in a covid secure way. and then on the 9th of— covid secure way. and then on the 9th of november 2020, less than a week— 9th of november 2020, less than a week before the first of the gatherings i will ask you about you said that _ gatherings i will ask you about you said that a — gatherings i will ask you about you said that a covid press conference, neither— said that a covid press conference, neither mass testing nor progress on va

the fact that harriet harman and bernard jenkin and bofis harman and bernard jenkin and boris johnsonposition boris johnson, his position before we've seen the evidence doesn't mean they can't change their mind. but it also doesn't mean that ineligible to have their say. yeah, that's pretty good point. cong has been in touch this morning. good morning touch this morning. good morning to you, khan . he says they have to you, khan. he says they have a party. they say a party is not just one man. so far, she's taking advice, as always, from advisers. then it was them. they didn't give him the advice didn't give him the right advice . not being held to . why are they not being held to account this witch hunt. account? this is a witch hunt. they want that man for they just want that man gone for good. it's disgusting . and there good. it's disgusting. and there are of especially are a lot of people, especially in the news inboxes, saying in the gb news inboxes, saying this a witch hunt. is it, this is a witch hunt. is it, though ? i don't know. i mean , though? i don't know. i mean, it's i

thought it was interesting looking at bernard jenkins as he's now known when i used to work for williamn, we used to have a cardboard cut out in have a cardboard cut out him in the office and. i have to say it's slightly more than he was today. it's slightly more than he was today . but the thing that today. but the thing that really, really me about this is setting aside whether or not we should have been locked down, you know, that is our history. that's what done. unless you've worked inside government. well, i in opposition, unless you've worked inside that you do not understand how hard that job is. you just what you work 24 seven and the most of the offices like the ones that boris refers to in number 10. they wouldn't pass a kind of safety test. they're rabbit warrens . but that's kind rabbit warrens. but that's kind of great because you work really closely together, you have crisis after crisis, you are thrown , you throw yourselves thrown, you throw yourselves together to do this work. no one kind of understands that . and kind of understands that. and what really made me so to

thought it was interesting looking at bernard jenkins as he's now known when i used to work for williame used to have cardboard cut out him in have a cardboard cut out him in the office and. i have to say it's slightly more than he was today. it's slightly more than he was today . but the thing that today. but the thing that really, really me about this is setting aside whether or not we should have been locked down, you know, that is our history. that's what done. unless you've worked inside government. well, i in opposition, unless you've worked inside that you do not understand how hard that job is. you just what you work 24 seven and the most of the offices like the ones that boris refers to in number 10. they wouldn't pass a kind of safety test. they're rabbit warrens . but that's kind rabbit warrens. but that's kind of great because you work really closely together, you have crisis after crisis, you are thrown , you throw yourselves thrown, you throw yourselves together to do this work. no one kind of understands that . and kind of understands that. and what really made me so toda

but he's got to in the end, turn it against harriet harman and jenkin say, you and bernard jenkin andho are persecuted . the people who are persecuted. you will not give me a fair chance and, have to answer chance and, then have to answer for themselves. if you can do it, you may away with it. talk about biographer of boris about the biographer of boris johnson about to, of johnson and make about to, of course, like i say, about someone but someone sitting next week. but it's now to reveal it's time now to reveal tonight's greatest person in union christine , who are you union christine, who are you going to nominate for me tonight 7 going to nominate for me tonight ? well, it might be the members of the european reform group who have fired a magnificent shot across . and then they said boris across. and then they said boris ricci's opposing the half truths, frankly that we're told in the windsor framework. i just hope that they've got the balls to follow and vote against it and. of course, we had andrea jenkins from the iag on earlier said that she was going to vote against watching

but he's got to in the end, turn it against harriet harman and jenkin say, you and bernard jenkin andare persecuted . the people who are persecuted. you will not give me a fair chance and, then to answer chance and, then have to answer for themselves. if you can do it, you may away with it. talk about the biographer of boris johnson about to, of johnson and make about to, of course, like i say, about someone next week. but someone sitting next week. but it's to it's time now to reveal tonight's person in tonight's greatest person in union christine , who are you union christine, who are you going to nominate for me tonight 7 going to nominate for me tonight ? well, it might be the members of the european reform group who have fired a magnificent shot across . and then they said boris across. and then they said boris ricci's opposing the half truths, frankly that we're told in the windsor framework. i just hope that they've got the balls to follow and vote against it and. of course, we had andrea jenkins from the iag on earlier said that she was going to vote against watching andrew, y

it's headed by sir bernard jenkin, whose question to the prime minister on his performance and policiesl boats and perhaps all the issues of housing them and hotels . the housing them and hotels. the windsor framework to the agreement the eu. let's more with our senior political commentator nigel nelson and how the prime minister is faring because certainly from his own party he's had a bit of a thumbs up for his performance in these weeks . yes, he has. and the weeks. yes, he has. and the difference, i think between him and boris johnson is rishi sunak really does his homework . so you really does his homework. so you can imagine he's spending you've been spending a lot of time working what he might be asked by various select committee chairs . and i'm sure he would chairs. and i'm sure he would actually get an easier ride than, say, sir, better. jenkin gave boris the privileges committee . yeah. which which committee. yeah. which which obviously was was quite forensic and uncalled for johnson to account. but there was interesting assessment, of course , by liam fox on, the course, by

and bernard jenkins, bernie jenkins are all were all on the standards committee.hey all voted for a shorter a nine day suspension for margaret ferrier. they overruled and the suspension has been 30 days but it's thought that could have chosen to do that in order to soften the ground if they choose to go for a shorter sentence or try and setting any kind of precedent for what they may actually as a sanction against boris. well, exactly . because boris. well, exactly. because these interesting words about damaging the reputation and integrity of the house of commons one could argue that thatis commons one could argue that that is exactly boris johnson did. if chose to suspend did. so if chose to suspend margaret ferrier for 30 days, then they would probably be obuged then they would probably be obliged or would seen as pretty hypocritical if they chose not. right. and boris johnson for more than four more than ten days. but of course they were overruled. the committee as a whole went it went for this whole went for it went for this much longer suspension and many of

it's an absolute waste and what that jenkins doing that bernard jenkins issue put against the wall andd up . against the wall and bashed up. well he should he come out we wouldn't recommend obviously no deterrent doesn't mean he's comedian he's of course i didn't mean that no are you going mean that no what are you going to a wall? no, know he's to find a wall? no, i know he's an old mate of mine. i can't believe he's got the knives out. so what? he's never going to become prime minister. they all nip. harriet what is nip. harriet harman, what is doing? it's like a piano teacher, didn't she? it was awful. well you and awful. well you know, and i watched and i was so embarrassed because me the half hour because sent me to the half hour or metre i'll oh, or a metre and i'll say, oh, come they thank you. thank come on, they thank you. thank you. i'm terribly sorry. let's move got a country to move on. we got a country to run. they need to get on with it now. these barristers now. what about these barristers that of looking at that knew are sort of looking at things and saying, oh, well, w

that is bernard jenkin there, conservative chair of the liaison committee opening that session and justxpected to go on for perhaps one hour and a half, so we will leave it there and our colleagues at westminster will monitor it and we all get analysis from then of the significant developments if you're watching in the uk we will do that extensively after half past three uk time, so in after half past three uk time, so in a little over 25 minutes from now. in the meantime, turning our attention to some of the other main news today and in mexico... where at least 39 people have died in a fire at a migrant centre near the border with the united states. the blaze broke out at an immigration facility in ciudad juarez — which is next to the stanton international bridge that links the city to el paso, texas. this was the scene outside the building overnight, with the emergency services in attendance. it's not year clear what caused the fire. many of the victims are thought to be migrants who had been arrested in the city the day before, with some reports suggesting they had been detained in l

i will now invite sir bernard jenkin to ask the first question. sir thank you .les and guidance in place at the time of each of the events you attended or of which you had knowledge by reminding ourselves of what you were telling the country about the rules and guidance. and then we will ask about those gatherings . now you about those gatherings. now you were aware of the importance of following the guidance. the government had issued to keep workplaces safe? indeed, you previously told the house of commons on the 2nd of september 2020. and i quote it's very that we get people back into the in a covid secure unquote and then on 9th of november 2020, less than a week before the first of the gatherings that i will ask you about, you said at a covid press conference, and i quote, neither testing nor progress on vaccines are at present time , at the are at present time, at the present time, a substitute for the national restrictions force distancing and all the rest. so it is all the more important to follow the rules, unquote . and follow the rules, unquote. and at

harriet harman, who has stepped into temporarily chair this investigate committee, but also by bernard jenkinjohnson in the flesh with his verbal defence on wednesday. but this afternoon we'll be able to read some of that defence as well. okay. and it's likely to be what's the word i'm looking for very passionate defence from the former prime minister because of course he still has big political ambitions . and if this political ambitions. and if this all goes wrong on wednesday , it all goes wrong on wednesday, it could arguably end up in him a by—election in his constituency. the process by which that would happen would be the committee recommends a ten day suspension from the house. now, that is the threshold by which a by—election can be triggered if a proportion of boris johnson's constituency were to then petition for that by—election. so it's a few stage process. what would have to happenis process. what would have to happen is the committee would have to recommend a ten day suspension. the house of commons would have to then vote for that ten day suspension. and then the people uxbrid