there is just one thing bernie kerik needed--a big pile of money quoting from kerik's emails meadowsating it's going to run between five and 8 million with all due respect we don't want the campaign counts people involved. there's only one thing that's going to move the needle and forced legislators to do what they are obligated to do and that is apply pressure. it does not appear that bernie kerik ever got the five to 8 million dollars to go through with his plan. but we do know that the trump team did engage in a major effort to get states to send those fake electors to washington d. c. and these new emails show us just how important that idea had become to the people around donald trump at the time. but maybe more importantly these new emails show us how much the trump cinematic universe is at its core basically a bunch of grifters looking for the next payout. there is no reason to believe convicted felon bernie kerik had any special magic to make state legislators throw the election for trump. and no indication of why in the world he needed five to $8 million to do it. when you b

and rudy giuliani and bernie kerik. view from rudy giuliani and bernie kerik's side was sidney powell was even too crazy for them. powell was pushing the notion that hugo chavez and chinese thermostats had somehow intervened with election machines, using cyber techs. rudy giuliani and jenna ellis and others were running this very aggressive nationwide pressure campaign going straight to these state lawmakers to try to lobby them to get on board with pushing, of course, the vice president to invalidate the election. so one person in addition to keep a close eye on, a name to keep a close eye out for as jack smith's parallel probe shall we say progresses is sidney powell and the extent to where she continues to ask a lot of questions about her. >> betsy, let me just follow up on that. trump is the connective tissue between both. i mean, it's trump who at the peak of covid -- this was pre-vaccinated america is calling state legislatures. some of those calls have gone on through biden's presidency, but trump is the connecti

bernie kerik, the former nypd commissioner. a number of different people.ow ceo. you know, tommy tuberville, the senator who missed votes to be there tonight. but for the most part, kaitlan, those were the diehards. these were people who were asked by trump's staff to be here or who love the chance to see the former president. but there were not people who were in the administration or even in his past presidential campaign. you're looking at a very, very different motif here. >> yeah. and of course it's telling who he surrounds himself with. maggie, you say it's clear that he's determined to fight these charges obviously in the court of public opinion. a lot of questions about what his legal strategy actually in the courthouse looks like. does this remind you in any way of how he responded to what is obviously a very different situation but also came with a lot of fallout, which was the "access hollywood" tape that came around of course last time he was running for president? >> very much so. he has basically a few moves, kaitlan, that he uses over and ove

kerik went down to meet with him. we both met, talked about the case. when berniethe president said to him, the lawyers told me not to talk about january 6 so we're not going to do it. >> yeah. it's one thing for somebody who comes and pays a visit. it's another thing for the guy who gets you your diet cokes all day. >> correct, correct. but i think with the constant presence of attorneys which i expect to be more often going forward that that's something they can handle. >> right. i want to play for you what the former president said in his speech last night, specifics about the case, and what he says he did and why. >> okay. >> i hadn't had a chance to go through all of the boxes. it's a long tedious job. takes a long time which i was prepared to do, but i have a very busy life. >> is that helpful to his case? >> yeah. it's -- whether it's helpful or not is going to be up to the trial attorneys. >> what do you think? you were the attorney on this for a while. >> i know that the first 15 boxes that were returned to merrick. my understanding he ordered them brought