can you tell us more about why bernie kerik may be the sort of kevin bacon of all of this?a person that connects the various spokes on the wheel? >> yeah, he's a bit of a forrest gump type character. he and rudy giuliani go way, way back, to their days running a powerful office within the city of new york. bernie kerik of course was the nypd commissioner, he has been very close allies of giuliani for decades now. and in that crazy window, between election day 2020, and january 2026, bernie kerik very much worked hand and glove with rudy giuliani, under him, on that legal team that was trying to find any sort of evidence, any sort of pretext to make the case that the election had been stolen by joe biden. what we also know, based on the conversation that i had today with bernie kerik's lawyer, who was in the room with the special counsel's team for the interview that bernie kerik held with them earlier this week, is that jack smith's prosecutors were very interested in save america, interested in who was making decisions about fund raising and also, interested in who was mak

that said, bernie kerik also was convicted on eight felonies. udy helped convince trump to pardon him. i mean, these two are very, very close. so it's not a surprise that bernie wants to hip him. what is a problem is bernie doesn't have the money to help rudy. bernie is not a lawyer. so he's helping him as a loyal friend. how this translates into finding rudy a real lawyer to defend him is still the question. >> giuliani apparently doesn't have any money to pay for a real lawyer right now. >> right. >> we'll see what happens on that front. >> one thing, money is one thing. this is not the ideal defense client, as well. everyone deserves to have the presumption of innocence, of course, and i hold that very dear. but this is somebody with so many cases against him, somebody who doesn't appear to be, through our reporter, to have the viable defense of, say, another person, somebody who is well-versed in rico, well-versed in the ideas of what the conversations had, his own discussions in georgia with the two women who are mother and daughter for the

i worked with bernie kerik and worked for rudy giuliani a long time ago. fact that bernie was so embedded with donald trump this time around, you know, he's got a lot of access and a lot of information. and the question is whether they were proceeding in good faith which is hard to do if you have absolutely zero evidence. but as i said before and say again, hyperpartisanship is a hell of a drug. >> just one other issue. so after trump was found liable for defaming and his physical attacks on e. jean carroll, he countersued her for defamation for comments she made here on cnn. and now judge has dismissed that. signi significance? >> i think it's incredibly significant. it's one of these cases that we're just not talking about. the fact that the judge said this defamation suit has no weight but said in the -- not the letter of the law but cloak wee ally the term rape does apply to the situation. i think that should matter to people that a judge looked at the evidence and said, this is what happens. >> right. because she said on our air, asked in her response,

him in this full case or if they're just willing to help over the course of these few days as bernie kerikll. kerik is not a lawyer, but has extensive law enforcement experience not only as a police commissioner and also as a defendant and he's helping rudy giuliani as he gets through this initial stage and at this point, it is unclear if any of the lawyers he has today will be representing him out this this case in fulton conte. >> it is really interesting, those developments hearing from laura coates, he could represent him and having a attorney alongside and your comment about how much he owes and the fact that he has taken a private plane, clearly landing in a different airport and not atlanta hartsfield. if you see the plane in the background there. you see the stairs are down and clearly, we'll see people start coming off that plane. we do believe that rudy giuliani is on that plane. paula reid, thank you so much to you and laura coates, as well. now over to you, john. ? we'll continue to watch that plane and we can notice rudy giuliani's legs, at least, getting off the plane and wal

bernie kerik is a western, who even in civil lawsuit it's related to the 2020 election, had not turnedeverything, all documents. so there clearly is some stones that the special counsel is wanting to overturn both with him. and also we know another lawyer, or another person who will may be going in at another time at the special counsel's office. so there's stuff to do, even smith and his lawyers have been out there. he hasn't been, neither has giuliani. >> and of course, bernie kerik was highly involved in what turned out to be fraudulent, unfounded evidence of election fraud. katelyn polantz, thank you so much, as always. brianna. >>> let's discuss this with michael moore and u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia and currently a partner at the moore-hall law firm, michael, first, what do you mean of the grand jury continuing to meet, continuing what does this mean? do you think we'll see unindictmented co-conspirators possibly indicted? >> you took the words out of my mouth, i think that's the scenario that we'll be seeing, we know that special counsel likes to come back a

but bernie kerik yesterday, he spoke to the special counsel's office for about five hours. upon leaving, his attorney said they have a lot of questions about what the giuliani team was doing. giuliani is a coconspirator in that indictment against donald trump. he's not charged at this time, but clearly the special counsel still has questions and a reason to be convening that grand jury today in the courthouse behind me. kate? >> katelyn polantz, glad you're there. thank you. omar? >>> and to georgia now, where this morning the grand jury is weighing whether trump will be indicted for a fourth time this year. they are seeking more testimony. former lieutenant governor jeff duncan said he was subpoenaed last week by the jury and will testify this month. just last knight the republican called trump's current attacks on the legal system erratic and unmoored from the truth. that's for trump's 2020 find the votes call to georgia secretary of state, duncan describes it as dangerous and pathetic. cnn's nick valencia is live outside the courthouse in atlanta. nick, i think it's no s

former nypd commissioner bernie kerik, his attorney confirming to us that he is co-conspirator number 5 in this indictment. and there are similarly details that also help us identify kerik as the individual listed as number 5. we know that bernie kerik was deeply involved with rudy giuliani's legal team trying to help find evidence of widespread voter fraud. and we know that bernie kerik was specifically at a white house meeting in november 2020 where trump was president and they were talking to a bunch of state legislators from pennsylvania trying to pressure them to hold a special session in their bid to overturn the election. his presence at that meeting in addition to the confirmation from his lawyer made clear. we also know that another individual, co-conspirator number 6, is also at that meeting in november 2020. phil waldron, an election denier, a member of giuliani's team. we were able to find out through context, clues and his attendance at that meeting that he too is one of the unnamed individuals. >> also cnn was able to piece together the identity of two other unnamed indi

this bernie kerik? >> yeah, bernie kerik, the former new york city police commissioner who has been helping rudy giuliani in terms of offering advice and connecting with people. the bottom line is, everybody out here is staring hard right now at this, the first of many deadlines, and expecting donald trump to fold it up here and go in and make his peace with things, at least for the moment, and here we are on tuesday. one thing to remember and all of this, and all of the discussion we are having -- every one of these days moves us closer to the election and raises constantly the question, can you get through all this to get anything meaningful before that comes around in terms of what voters will know what really happened and what the jury might decide -- >> so important. and thank, you tom foreman. also, there is some new reporting tonight, sarah, they are reporting in the new york times, that former president donald trump will now headline a 100,000 dollar per person fund-raiser for rudy giuliani's le

just next week they are gonna speak to bernie kerik. he is a former new york police commissioner, but he also has worked right alongside rudy giuliani in all of his efforts to overthrow -- 2020 election. so that is one of several witnesses that we know they are speaking to through the end of the summer. but anderson, it also speaks to the possibility of additional charges. we know this investigation continues, they could file additional charges against new defendants, or file additional charges like they did down in florida against the former president. but we, know for example, bernie kerik, they will be talking to him quite a bit about coconspirator number one, rudy giuliani. so this investigation continues, the choice to only charge the former president initially clearly strategic, and we will be watching and waiting and reporting to see whom elsa may face charges here. >> all, right thank you so much. -- cnn senior political mentor and former -- adam kinzinger, former trump medications director anthony scaramucci. who, we should poi

he is the former new york police commissioner, bernie kerik. this may not come as a surprise to you if you've been following our exclusive reporting that we brought you here on "the source" last week regarding how giuliani went to mar-a-lago on what appeared to be a fruitless mission a few months ago to ask trump to help pay for his legal bills, something that didn't work out. we have even more news on giuliani tonight. for that i want to go to cnn's paula reid, who is believe outside the fulton county jail. paula, you have this breaking news on rudy giuliani. we have not seen him yet at the courthouse. what are you hearing from your sources? >> reporter: well, we expect we could see him tomorrow, kaitlan, because we have learned that giuliani is scheduled to meet with the district attorney here in fulton county tomorrow. our colleague zach cohen and i have learned that giuliani will travel here to georgia tomorrow with bernie kerik. now, he's of course the former new york police commissioner. he is not a lawyer. he is also an unindicted co-con

one source tells cnn giuliani will travel to georgia with bernie kerik. nypd commissioner. he worked closely with giuliani after the 2020 election chased down the unfounded claims of fraud. kerik is not charged why the indictment. his attorney confirmed to cnn he is the unnamed individual listed as co-conspirator five in the georgia indictment. let me bring in his attorney, timothy parlatore, who also represented trump in multiple probes. tim, thanks for your time this morning. appreciate it. >> good morning. >> last night we didn't know if giuliani had an attorney in the state of georgia. can you explain your client, bernie kerik's role, why is he going? is he still going with giuliani to georgia today, and if so, why? >> well, look, he worked with rudy giuliani for a long time. he is helping out his friend. this is a new process to rudy giuliani. the georgia state system where they have to go to the sheriff's office and go through the system there. this is not the arraignment. this is not like in new york where you go straight from there to see the judg

. >> these are the investigative files that bernie kerik, as the chief investigator for rudy giuliani, put together november and december. and they're very interesting. g policeh the rawlininvest like investigation you would expect here, bernie kerik, to carry out a policepo investigation. it had scores of allegatiolice it had affidavits from people. it had a statistical from data scientists and other things lhat laid out all the potentia accusations. but it had not made any conclusions one way or the other about whether these allegations were true or not. this is going to go to the very issue that your guests just talked about. what trump's state of mindthes on january 4th, there's a memo written sayings were, we're goig to go tell congress what we found. congon't know if it's trueald tr not. we need them to go investigate. we need more time to go investigatress whauld knowe. at. that gives you a very strong state of mind of what rudy giuliani, bernie kerik and donald trump are thinking. they had a whole bunch of allegations, didn't havewere thi the resources of the time to find out

. >> your client, bernie kerik was assisting him down in georgia., having friends there to, you know, work out the logistics so that you don't have to deal with all of those other things, you know, it's helpful, and so i'm sure that mr. giuliani appreciates the help. >> do you have any update on bernie kerik's, you're not saying cooperation, but his cooperating stance. >> being cooperative. >> being cooperative with the special counsel. >> we are so cooperative. i had a nice chat with him earlier today. >> have you turned over any more documents? >> no, no, we've turned over everything that we have that's not privileged, and yet to the extent that there's any issues of privilege that they work out with the campaign, we're happy to turn other, you know, any additional ones, but at this stage, they have the vast majority of everything. >> the conversation you had with them today, the friendly conversation, you just mentioned, can you tell us what it was about? >> it was just discussions of general logistics, and then an update on the privilege log. so

we have learned exclusively that bernie kerik has been interviewed, a close associate of rudy giuliani, and his lawyer confirmed to us he had a lot of question from prosecutors about rudy giuliani, also known as co-conspirator number one. cnn reporting tonight exclusively that former new york police commissioner bernie kerik talked to special counsel investigators. >> it was mostly about the effort between the election and january 6th of what the giuliani team was doing. >> reporter: this is the first known investigative step since the special counsel's office filed charges against former president trump last week. kerik's attorney saying he doesn't think that rudy giuliani will be indicted. >> no, not a chance. >> reporter: also tonight, trump's lawyers arguing in a new court filing that they shouldn't be restricted from talking publicly about some evidence in the election interference probe. >> the press and the american people in a campaign season have a right to know what the evidence is in this case. >> reporter: while so-called protective orders aren't unusual, prosecutors saying

bernie kerik is helping him through this. he was ultimately pardoned by former president trump in part thanks to rudy giuliani as we've seen across the country, state level, federal level. just because you are a law enforcement official in no way insulates you. if a prosecutor believes there is evidence to charge you. it will be up to the jury, potentially at the federal level, because giuliani has said he will try to get it to the federal court. it will be up to the jury whether he is convicted. but the idea that he shouldn't be charged solely because you used to prosecute people, that's not the way justice works in the united states. >> paula reid, thank you very much. we'll have a whole lot more on this story ahead and on the breaking news that we've been covering for the last couple of hours. the wagner chief yevgeny prigozhin listed among passengers on board a plane that crashed northwest of moscow. that is according to russian state media. we are seeing these pictures. the tail numbers appear to jive with what we know t

in the weeks prior to the january 6th insurrection and attack on the capitol bernie kerik was working hand in glove with rudy giuliani as well as several other lawyers for two weeks on plans to spread the word about stop the steal, to spread the false claims that the election had been stolen and to help block state legislatures from certifying those elections in those specific places, spreading this fake elector kind of virus in different key swing states. bernie kerik may be able to provide some important information about rudy and about donald trump that may be valuable to jack smith if and when he chooses to move forward with prosecuting any of the unindicted co-conspirators or in terms of shoring up some of the facts he alleges about donald trump. i would add one more thing, if i could, alicia, about the whole issue of jack smith's protective order and judge chutkan's choice right now. the choice right now is for all those who watch the department of justice protecting witnesses from being attacked. i think we should also be considering what donald trump most wants, and that is to

team was doing. >> and i want to pause, you brought it up, that -- are you now still representing bernie kerikd been in the january 6th case, the federal case. >> yes. mr. kerik and i sat with special counsel last week. >> anything you care to reveal about the status of that? >> we sat with him for five hours. yeah, we sat with him for about five hours, we went through all of the efforts that the giuliani team undertook during that period of time to try and find fraud. what was preventing them from being able to, you know, go further, what they did to try and corroborate these claims, and certain claims of when they found out there wasn't corroboration for that they dropped out. and so, you know, we went through all that with him. >> i want to ask you about the effort to continue to try to find some sort of fraud that happened in 2020 because donald trump put it out there this morning, he's going to have this press conference, he's going to reveal all. suddenly all these charges are going to be rendered moot because of this new information he has, ignoring the fact that 62 lawsuits were filed

the first is former police commissioner bernie kerik working closely with co-conspirator number one, rudy giuliani, in his efforts to overturn the election. investigators likely have questions for him. there's also at least one former trump attorney who is going to go in and speak with investigators. as we saw in florida, they filed charges and did a super seeding indictment. we understand from our sources that that is a very likely possibility here as well. >> we'll see if these co-conspirators are eventually charged with a crime. none of them yet have been charged. stay with us. i want to bring in kaitlan collins, doing excellent reporting on all of this. i know you're getting clues as to how the trump defense team is shaping up and what they're planning on doing. >> they're making it very clear what they're going to argue. that starts with john laura. he will be the attorney along with todd blanche heading up the january 6th defense. he's making clear they're going to say this has to do with trump's first amendment rights. >> our focus is this is an attack on free speech and polit

bernie kerik is not an attorney, but he does have extensive experience. he's helping rudy through this, reaching out to lawyers here in georgia to try to get someone who will agree to represent them. but, brianna as of now, all rudy needs is someone with a georgia law license who's willing to just sign a bond agreement so that rudy can go and surrender. this doesn't have to be a longtime relationship. this is not going to be permanent representation. right now all they need is one lawyer who will sign that bond agreement. and it appears they'll be able to find that. but then they'll need to continue to hunt for someone who will represent rudy throughout the course of this case. now, if he was to not surrender by friday, yes, he could potentially be detained. >> that would be something. so we'll be watching to see how this plays out. what are we finding out about what may await former president trump on thursday based on his codefendants who surrendered today? >> reporter: we saw two of his codefendants surrender today. the cog orify down here in fulton co

they're continuing to talk to witnesses, witnesses like former new york police commissioner bernie kerik. he worked very closely with rudy giuliani in these efforts to allege fraud. and one of the other witness, at least one of them is a former trump lawyer. so they will continue to gather evidence. it is unclear if there will be a superseding indictment and additional charges. >> we've already seen one proceeding document that led to an additional co-defendant in the mar-a-lago case. there is already a precedent for this unprecedented time. thank you so much. erin? >> indictment against trump repeatedly references the six coaxes that paula is referring to. zachary cohen is who are to tell us more about them, the ones we now know about, and of course one we don't yet, zack. >> aaron, the indictment refers to people as six individuals who trump enlisted to assist him in his criminal behavior. we have identified five of the six people that are described in this indictment. and if you follow it along during the january 6th committee hears, none of the names will really come as a surprise. t

tell us about how he navigates that, considering that his good friend bernie kerik who is accompanying him on this trip is an unindicted co-conspirator here. what does he do here, rudy giuliani? >> if he was being super careful, he would cut ties with anyone who is a witness or a potential victim in this case. i do think that as long as they're not discussing the case, i don't know that that would violate any of the conditions. how does that get policeded? it is probably a natural question. the answer is it is an imperfect process. judges and police are the only ones who can police it. so i think rudy giuliani will have to walk a pretty narrow tight rope as will donald trump as well. if people are wondering about these numbers, $200,000 for trump, $150,000 for rudy. they don't have to post all of that in cash. typically you have to post 10%. there are ways in georgia you can find a surety without posting any of it. if you're wondering how they arrive at these numbers, it is based on the numbers but it is negotiated between the prosecutor and the defense attorney. you come to a number t

cnn has learned that special counsel investigators met with bernie kerik yesterday.erik is the former disgraced new york city police commissioner close with rudy giuliani and coordinated with him in the weeks and months after the 2020 election. here is what kerik's attorney told cnn about the meeting. >> it was mostly about, you know, all the efforts in between the election and january 6th of what the giuliani team was doing and really just going through all of the efforts that they took at the time to take all the complaints of fraud, see what they could do to chase him down. >> he added that he does not think that giuliani will be indicted. let's go now to cnn senior legal analyst elie honig. lots of big questions about this indictment, including what happens with giuliani and the other unindicted coconspirators. >> yeah, victor. we learn more information about this case everyday. but three big questions to me persist. first of all, what will happen with the coconspirators? now in this indictment, jack smith identifies not by name but by abbreviations cc coconspira

back at their office, they spoke with someone who could be a really helpful witness for them, bernie ke kerik, former new york city police xhilser, sose cloesht of rudy giuliani. we're told investigators had a lot of questions about giuliani. it's unclear today exactly what the grand jury was doing, if prosecutors were reading in the answers from bernie kerik or up to something else. at this point, it's unclear if anyone else will be indicted, but it does seem likely. >> certainly does. stay with us. i don't want you to go too far away. i want to bring in cnn legal analyst elie honig. what do you make of the judge's decision? is it a loss for the trump team that she glossed over their request to delay? >> wolf, i think it's a perfectly reasonable compromise position. the judge and doj said, let's get it done this week. trump's team said, monday or tuesday. the judge said, we're doing it friday. i think this previews a back and forth we'll see repeated many times in this case. donald trump's team, yes, their goal clearly is to delay. everyone understands that. but they also do have a reasonabl

>> bernie kerik. >> the one that is offering rudy with advice. bottom line is, everybody out here is staring hard at this, the first of many deadlines. we're expecting donald trump to fold it up here and go in and make his peace with things for the moment. and here we are on tuesday. one thing to remember in all of this, and all of the discussion we're having, every one of these days moves us closer to the election and raises constantly the question, can you get through all of this, to get anything meaningful before that comes around, in terms of what voters will know about what really happened and what a jury might decide. >> so important. thank you, tom foreman. also, there's new reporting tonight, sara, that the reporting in "the new york times," that former president donald trump will now headline a $100,000 per person fund-raiser, for rudy giuliani's legal defense on september 7th. a new date to keep in mind. we know he is in some real financial peril about this. the fact he is hosting it, though, at this, well, costly amount, is telling you

he's defending co-conspirator number five, who has been identified as former nypd commissioner bernie kerikan enormous case, mountains of evidence to go through. fani willis proposed starting the trial october 23rd this year. is that even physically possible? >> that is laughable, the idea that you can start a trial that quickly. a rico trial, with this amount of discovery, and, you know, and also a case where you have pretty significant pretrial motions to be litigated. i think that that's -- that may be good for press releases, but i don't think anybody in that courtroom thinking is a real date. >> what would be a reasonable date, do you think? >> so, setting aside the election entirely, this is a case that, you know, rico has a significant amount of discovery to it. it's a complex case. the trial itself will probably take four months-plus to try, i would expect. the average time of that, you take at least two years before you even get to jury selection. i can't possibly see this going any faster than that. that's one of the problems when you run into bring a rico case as opposed to somet

>> reporter: in washington, cnn reporting exclusively that former new york police commissioner bernie kerik talked to special counsel investigators. >> mostly about all the efforts in between the election and january 6 of what the giuliani team is doing. >> reporter: the meeting is the first known investigative step since the special counsel's office filed charges against former president trump last week. kerik's attorney tim parlatore saying he doesn't think that rudy giuliani will be indicted. >> not a chance. >> reporter: also trump's lawyers arguing in a new court filing that they shouldn't be restricted from talking publicly about some evidence in the election interference probe. >> the press and the american people in a campaign season have a right to know what the evidence is in this case. >> reporter: while so-called protective orders aren't unusual, prosecutors say that it is especially important in this case because of trump's public statements. and how they could have a chilling effect like this recent social media post that read "if you go after me, i'm coming after you." trump

>> reporter: in washington, cnn reporting exclusively that former new york police commissioner bernie kerik talked to special counsel investigators. >> mostly about all the efforts in between the election and january 6 of what the giuliani team was doing. >> reporter: the meeting is the first known investigative step since the special counsel's office filed charges against former president trump last week. kerik's attorney saying he doesn't think trump's former lawyer rudy giuliani will be indicted. >> not a chance. >> reporter: also trump's lawyers arguing in a new court filing that they shouldn't be restricted from talking publicly about some evidence in the election interference probe. >> the press and the american people in a campaign season have a right to know what the evidence is in this case. >> reporter: while so-called protective orders aren't unusual, prosecutors say that it is especially important in this case because of trump's public statements and how they could have a chilling effect like this recent social media post that read "if you go after me, i'm coming after you." tru

expected to travel to georgia along with his longtime friend former new york police commissioner bernie kerik. kerik is an unindicted co-conspirator in the fulton county case. kerik has been helping giuliani in his search for an attorney, which is challenging given that giuliani has seven figures worth of unpaid legal bills. but it appears that they have someone with a georgia law license who will at least help them through the bond phase of this process. unclear though if he has retained someone who has agreed to represent him in this case. it is an open question about whether giuliani can even afford a lawyer to represent him in this case. now, i'm also told by one source that giuliani would like to get through the bond negotiations and his surrender before former president trump shows up on thursday. as cnn reported, rudy has gone to former president trump pleading with him to give him help with his legal bills. as of now giuliani has only received a small portion of what he owes and that was from a trump affiliated political action committee, not from trump himself. paula reid, cnn, fulto

former new york city police commissioner and rudy giuliani's chief election fraud investigator -- bernie keriksat down for a five hour talk with investigators. the investigators asked her about the save america packs amazing fundraising hall after the attack on the capital. there is always a possibility of superseding indictments because we saw that in the document cases were separate indictments. there are, as we know, seven unindicted coconspirators. one thing is clear. every party understands that this is a test of what the legal process that trump is used and abused for decades to escape accountability will be used to give him another shot at control over a country whose government he tried to destroy. christie greenberg is a former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york which she served as deputy chief for the criminal division. and -- sort of the public integrity unit in the department of justice. both join me now. let me start in his speed process question for you, kristie. the judge says give me dates. the lawyer says ah, we can't make this week work, she comes back a

don't know how that is affecting the special counsel criminal investigation but we do know that bernie kerik is set to sit down with russell investigators. they very likely have asked for the same sets of documents. he verily likely could be withholding them from this national council prosecutors as well and they are still investigating clearly many of the aspects of what happened we will have to wait and see if he does become willing to turn over 300 documents or if a judge pries them over somehow. >> it's hard to keep track and that's why we have you, katelyn polansky to keep track. now, ryan goodman special counsel the department of defense and stephanie grisham former white house press truck -- press secretary. what do you think about the former president posting if you go after me, i am coming after you and this being followed by a campaign ad that identifies the prosecutors in these cases? >> i think it's chilling. legally it doesn't seem like very smart but how is that not intimidation? and what other people are going to take a message from that as we have seen and heard people really

tuesdays and thursdays and this comes just a day after we saw the special counsel interviewing bernie kerikourse the former new york police commissioner but he is also a close associate of rudy giuliani. the big question is, well, if the investigation continues, who else could be charged? we know giuliani is of course identified as co-conspirator number 1. we know kerik got a lot of questions about his long-time associate, the work he did for giuliani looking into these allegations of election fraud but he came out of the interview insisting that giuliani will not be charged. we know he was also asked about a lot of the other key players here, notably, brianna, though, today the grand jury didn't hear from any additional witnesses. so it's possible that they were reading in the testimony from kerik or possibly getting them ready for another indictment. it's unclear. >> looking at this case out of georgia, now, an indictment on election interference and particularly related to trump's actions and those of other folks in that state may come down soon, that's the expectation now. talk to us a

when you look at the mugshot today, he is walking with bernie kerik, who has done prison time, you looks was somebody known primarily as a u.s. attorney, a prosecutor, a law and order guy for better or worse, someone who believed that the law was about a search for the truth. someone who is not a hard partisan. now because he bought into hyper-partisan politics, he has destroyed his reputation and legacy in the service of donald trump. >> he seems to not know that has happened. that's theer it. but, jen, take us into the georgia state legislature much you had such a unique perspective. giuliani came to your committee and gave this presentation. what was that like? what was it like coming from someone like rudy giuliani? >> it was surreal because, a, it was in december, right. and what people don't realize is that in georgia the legislature is part time. so we're not even in session in december. so usually there is no one in the building. all of a sudden you have press everywhere. you walk into the room and there is giuliani, who i have known as a lawyer and watched for a long time. jenn

former new york police commissioner bernie kerik has been working with the former mayor to help him find a georgia lawyer to represent him in this case. but to start out tonight, i want to bring in an adviser to giuliani himself. joining me now is ted goodman. ted, thank you for joining us. we did just learn tonight that giuliani is expected to meet with the fulton county da's office tomorrow. how soon do you expect that he will surrender in this case? >> look, i don't know who is giving you that information. but what i can tell you is that -- i am not going to talk about the mayor's movements for security purposes -- however, discussions are happening. and, of course, there is a deadline for this friday. >> yeah. and you expect that he will be able to surrender by this friday? as he found an attorney to represent him in those bond proceedings? >> the mayor will be appropriately representative every step of the way. and, of course, he intends to follow the law. >> so, ted, cnn is reporting that giuliani has gone to trump personally to help him get help with those legal bills. and those p

if you dig through this list, it runs the gamut from bernie kerik, rudy giuliani's lead investigators, a former surfer from hawaii. there are a number of republican officials on this list as well. the highest ranking one that you can see here is current lieutenant governor of georgia, burt jones. that is who a judge ruled that fani willis couldn't indict because she had held a fund-raiser for his political opponent. i'm joined now by two people who know the situation well. michael moore and geoff duncan, lieutenant governor before burt jones, and a key witness in this case. what do you make when you look at that board? this is your home state. you know a lot of those faces. >> it's not surprising really at all. and i think, you know, they're using this idea of unindicted coconspirators to tell a story and put some context on it. but it also lets a prosecutor reach a little deeper into the whole of the enterprise and pull the noose a little bit tighter around the group. and it's a valuable tool. it also helps keep cooperators and witnesses in line because they can recognize that if the

able to provide very helpful evidence either in support of or against these coconspirators, like bernie kerik. so, this investigation continues. it is notable that these people were described and identified as coconspirators. and anderson, it is certainly possible that all of them or some of them may be charged. >> thanks so much. >>> just ahead, an incredible rescue of a wounded ukrainian soldier spotted by a drone -- you see him there -- which went back and delivered supplies to them and let him know that help was on the way. mom: we're having triplets. no, what does that mean? it means youou're gonna need more tide. -see? -baby: ah. morere likes? more tide. the more adorable? more tide. everyone's gonna need more tide. ♪ you're gonna need- more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. from prom dresses... ...to workouts... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 surv

he came with the former new york city -- police commissioner, bernie kerik. believe he was there. he had a georgia attorney on the ground, brian tefs, that was with him. >> yes. >> did you ever think that giuliani would be a client of yours? >> you know, you never know what to expect, but in this industry, you know, anything's possible. >> i understand that you also were part of helping the were toer chief of staff, mark meadows. you weren't with him when he went into the jail, but can you describe that situation? >> you know, really what it comes down to is efficiency and the logistics, right? and that's something that we're experts in. we're premier leaders in our industry. and that's essentially why they trusted us to do this. >> when you went into the fulton county jail -- you're probably familiar with it, much more familiar with it than many people are, just given the nature of your work. we've had so many people describe to us what it's like to walk inside that jail. what's it like to walk in there with someone like rudy giuliani? >> well, you know, eve

with us now, former trump attorney tim parlatore, who currently represents another 2020 figure, bernie kerik. also with a, cnn senior legal analyst elie honig, who has prosecutors -- and cnn political analyst and new york times senior political correspondent and trump biographer maggie haberman. elie, i want to start with you. the proposed hot trial date of january 2nd. real estate, or is this like an opening bid? it's like an opening bid. >> this was a remarkably -- sort of wrote wishful thinking on the prosecutions part. i mean, if they start this case in january, that would mean, according to prosecutors request, jury selection would start in mid december. that means donald trump's team would have four and a half months or so to get ready for trial. that is close to unheard of in the federal system. this is a broad conspiracy. this charge is donald trump, but at least six other coconspirators involved. it covers seven states, over 2 to 3 months. and just to understand why it's such a short timeframe. think of what donald trump's legal team has to do in four and a half months to make this

. >>> with us now, former trump attorney tim parlatore who currently represents bernie kerik. also with us elie honig, who has prosecuted his fair share of cases. and senior political correspondent and trump biographer maggie haberman. elie, i want to start with you. the proposed trial date of january 2nd. realistic or an opening bid? >> it's an opening bid. this is a remarkably aggressive opening bid. sort of wishful thinking on the prosecution's part. if they start this case in january, that would mean according to the prosecutor's request jury selection would start in mid-december that means donald trump's team would have four and a half months to get ready for trial that is close to unheard of in the federal system. this is a broad conspiracy. this charges donald trump, but at least six other co-conspirators involved. covers seven states over two to three months. and just to understand why it's such a short time frame, think of what donald trump's legal team has to do in four and a half months to make this happen. they have to review all the discovery. there is going to be

reporting that they still have witness interviews lined up including with the police commissioner bernie kerik, who can shed light on efforts to find evidence of voter fraud. but, i think the strongest indication is that the investigation is still ongoing and if you are one of the six people that is unnamed in this indictment, or you think you are, you're probably not western easy at this stage. >> absolutely, zachary, thank you very much. i should note that will from what we understand with these charges that these are very serious maximum charges is 20 years, 20 years, ten years. this is incredibly serious allegations -- i want to bring in timothy right now because he was chief investigative counsel of the january six committee. so timothy you look at this with an eye on like no one else. you have been through reams and reams of information, hundreds of hours of interviews, all related to the january six committees investigation, which was exhaustive. so, when you read through this 45-page indictment from jack smith and the special counsel, did you learn anything, did anything surprise you a

commissioner bernie kerik. you were a part of this team until a few months ago.sing him, which part of this indictment do you think is the biggest threat? >> the biggest threat really is the jurisdiction. this is a case brought in d.c. where the judge panel and the jury panel is going to be very predisposed against donald trump. at the same time, i think that a lot of the issues in this case are likely to be overturned on the appeal process. i don't necessarily see this case as being the biggest threat to donald trump overall. >> you don't think this is a strong indictment? >> not at all. not at all. i will tell you why. it comes down to the achilles heel of knowledge. jack smith must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that on the night of january 5th, morning of january 6th, that donald trump knew that he had lost that election. reading through that indictment, i didn't see anything new which would actually be able to establish that. >> first of all, he is not charged with inciting the riot. january 5th and 6th is not the only part of this case. there's right from

he was organizing the efforts to overturn the election result, camped out at the willard with bernie kerikoned in the indictments, but giuliani at that time also wracked up an extremely large bill that trump and the super pac and the trump campaign refused to pay for at the time, even though giuliani claimed he was acting at the behest of trump and, you know, this is obviously a personal relationship that is now a bit fraught over these outstanding legal bills. >> jackie alemany, ryan reilly, and paul butler, thank you all so much. >>> is it a case of keep your friends close and your political enemies closer? trump praising vivek ramaswamy after the debate, but could that change as that candidate's popularity grows? 's popularity grows game today? (hero fan) i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the subway seri

. >>> we've also learned that bernie kerik met with special counsel and their investigators today. he is the disgraced former new york city police commissioner. his attorney says they mainly focused on what rudy giuliani was doing after the 2020 election. of course all of that means this investigation goes on. what does this mean for trump's legal case and how the judge here is planning to handle it? it could say a lot about how she rules. perspective from retired california superior court judge. judge, thank you so much for joining me tonight. as i was noting, you know, just a few moments ago, we heard from the special counsel. they're responding to the trump team over this protective order. i'm quoting the special id -- counsel's team n -- is the defendant has proposed an unreasonable order to facilitate his plan to litigate this case in the media to the detriment of litigating this case in the courtroom. they say, normal order should prevail. this is a point they made repeatedly throughout the filing. what do you make of that response? >> it's important to note that a protective

so, there is a continuing investigation, all indications, including paula reid's reporting that bernie kerikbout rudy giuliani, to tell me that their next focus on those six coconspirators. a big question by the way, is if they are going to indict them, but they add them to the trump indictment, or do them separately? if they added to the trump indictment, that's going to be a big problem for timing. >> yet, we will see what that looks like. but also today, trump was railing against the district county, that is to be turning in fulton county, fani willis. i mean, he was going after her, in terms that we're not going to play what he said about her. today, but he was going after her. but we have learned from sara murray just now, that she is expected to present her case to the grand jury starting next week. that's going to take about four already eight hours, we believe. i mean, how soon do you think we could see the trump facing another indictment? >> look, it looks clear it could be very soon, could be next week. when you are at this phase, you are really at an endgame. and remember, fani wi

he represents former nypd commissioner bernie kerik who turned over thousands of pages of documents tok smith's office as part of the investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the election. tim, thank you for joining us on this, i appreciate it. i want to play for you some sound, the former president's attorney who appeared on the "today" show, john lauro, kind of staging some of the defense, it seems like we're going to be hearing in the coming months and have you react on the other side. let's listen. >> this indictment is criminalizing conduct, not speech. >> it is criminalizing speech for this reason. what the president saw in the 2020 election was all these irregularities going on. he had every right to comment on that, and act politically. in a criminal case, what they would have to show is all that speech is not entitled to first amendment protection. he'll never be able to do it. >> tim what is your reaction to that? >> you know, he's kind of hitting the point that all of these counts do require corrupt intent. they require him to know that these claims of fraud were false

if you dig through this-less, bernie kerik, who's former new york police department commissioner, rudylead investigator and former surfer from hawaii even to the ceo of cyber ninjas, the group behind a sham audit of ballots in arizona. there are a number of republican officials on this list as well. the highest ranking money you can see here is current lieutenant governor of georgia kurt jones. that is who they said fani willis couldn't indict, gianna fund-raiser's political opponent. i'm joined by two people who know the situation well, michael more, and jeff duncan, the former lieutenant governor, and a key witness in this case. what do you make when you look at this board, this is your home state, you know lot of those faces? >> it's not surprising really at all, and i think they are using this idea of an unindicted coconspirators to put historian for some context on it. also let's look prosecutor reach a little deeper into the hole of the enterprise and pull the noose a little tighter around the group. it's a viable tool, it also helps keep cooperators in witnesses islamic is they