what's the story with bert jenner and he sort of changes positions? was he -- was he forced out by the -- by the minority -- the minor leaders? >> i don't know about forced out. i mean, he was one of the prominent lawyers in the united states, the founder of jenner and block, the great chicago firm. so a person like myself, having begun to an ivy league law school, inspiring to be a kicker litigation department, sky high as far as i was concerned. he viewed the view pretty early on the president was going to be impeached. i remember him saying that to me and a couple other people in a car in march. that was not yet in the newspaper i think. he got there pretty quickly and he and dohr spent a lot of time together, i think. and he would come and make presentations to the republican members. but i don't think they ever felt at ease with him. i remember at one point he was testifying and i think it was dell latter from ohio that said, you say that, mr. jenner, but i don't have to take your word for that. i saw the report you just filed about how prostitut

so he looked at me straight you're being silly and he walks out. 15 minutes later bert jenner walks in. this i remember. bernie, stop being an idiot. you're being an idiot. come and watch with the rest of the staff the speech. we're going to watch together. then go back to work after that. so in a morose fashion i put my pencil down, all right. i'm acting stupid. i walk in and sit down in a chair, a little television set. you don't have the fancy televisions we have today. i'm looking at the set glaring, not talking to anybody. and president nixon comes on the screen and he starts the speech. and he says he's resigned. totally shocked. i was convinced he would never resign. he's going to resign. i never forget. i thought gee whiz, i said, now i don't have to fight with my wife anymore. that's all i thought b. i didn't think about history, the impeachment, what we did. i thought my god, i can go home tonight and no fight. we can go home. we can go home. with the kids. that's all i thought. i didn't think gee, this is really a historic event. a president resigning and we were part of thi

bert jenner, he was the way i remember him, a wonderful man, a wonderful guy, a prominent and well known lawyer. created a great firm, jenner and block. he wanted to do the right thing. he wasn't out to get the president as some republicans accused him of and pushed him aside. he was out to do sort of an independent fair investigation. and wherever the facts lead the facts lead. that's the way i felt and i think that's the way daal felt also. but he did feel like that. once we got the tapes, talked to some of the people yeah, we did conclude that impeachment wasn't appropriate. it took a while and for jenna to get there too. and i think the tapes had a big influence on all of us. that's why the irony is if the tapes wouldn't have been there, who knows what would have happened. >> when you put together the subpoenas were you hopeful or optimistic or just felt you had to do it but you didn't think the white house was going to give you anything. >> well, i was -- the way i remember it, one of the key people, not the only, no person was totally in charge of anything other than dole in charge

we had the benefit of counsel from bert jenner, who went through all the reasons why this was inadequate. i was persuaded by that. when we started to go around the circle, i said what if peter rubino just wants to write a letter? i remember the ranking member hutchins says there will be no letters. this is an attempt by democrats to simply steal the election they could not win and we're not going to be any part of it. i said what if it's just a letter, really, reaffirming what we were already asking for? he said no letters. then they were going to take a vote and i said what if i write the letter? they said no letters. as they were going around to take a vote, who is going to stand with us, i left. i went back to the office, wrote my own letter and called peter and said, would you support me tonight if i offer a substitute for your amendment? he said no. i said why not? don't you want this to be bipartisan? he said, look, i have two people on the committee that want to impeach richard nixon right now and if i support you, i will lose whatever control i have of the committee. i will recog