betty's husband. how was she used in the campaign? >> there's debate about that. there are people who think she was misused, overused, that she delicate rragile, figure. she was certainly very active in the primary campaign. in the ford-reagan race. there are people who remember at the convention, sort of the dueling candidates' wive the entrance of mrs. reagan to the convention hall, the entrance of mrs. ford who had the great good fortune in her mind to be introduced by carey grant, which is -- by cary grant, which is pretty impressive. in the fall campaign, again, there's this school of thought that she wasn't used as well as she might have been. >> dan is watching us in michigan. hi, dan. >> hi. appreciate this, i want to say the museum in grand rapids, been there a couple of times, it's a great place to visit and enjoy and -- if you haven't gone there. i'm curious, their post-white house years, how much time did they spend in grand rapids and where did they go after they left the white house to end up in california? >> good question. they had been out to the area around palm springs in the past , they had vacationed out there. and