did to him well let me frame it a little bit for you in november of two thousand and nine bill binney and i received a communication from our lawyer after we were raided in two thousand and seven we went have izzy's on a lawyer rather than pay to. the lawyer was a former u.s. prosecutor so we thought he'd know how to deal with the government. he told us to lay low in november two thousand and nine he sends an e-mail and he says guys i just got a call from the department of justice they're coming after you. so bill and i made an appointment with him and we went into baltimore and sat down at his desk and. he was completely surprised by this move he thought it would go away well it wasn't so that was the end of that for the holidays it was november when we got this message come january we get another e-mail there's a new prosecutor for the government the old one had left the government and we are being offered letters of immunity if we are willing to sit down with the f.b.i. and the prosecutor from the start and of justice and sir questions about thomas drake and so bill and i agree we'

whistleblower like bill binney and thomas drake so they are investigating it with quite something andi think this is seen as a threat actually certainly by the usa because because they. they were created to spy from the german intelligence community to feed back what was going on within this committee hearing so they are taking it seriously i think the germans are taking it seriously because they have to be seen to be doing so because there's been such an outpouring of anger from the german people of course within living memory we've had both. the stasi the east german secret police spying on citizens in this country and brutalizing them so there's a very strong constitution in place to stop that happening again and this is why germany particularly in europe is so angry about what the n.s.a. and its vassal. u.k. this new post has been getting up to in germany right and some german officials have even suggested going back to the typewriter to protect classified government information from ending up in some massive database but anyway you suggest that this might be exactly the type of t

but again finally with this bill binney is saying it like they're using this to blackmail heads of state but the new york times back in two thousand and thirteen september twenty eighth thirteen reported that the n.s.a. has since two thousand and ten applied sophisticated software to create quote social network diagrams unlock as many secrets about individuals as possible and pick up sensitive information like regular calls to a psychiatry office late night messages to an extramarital partner why they're collecting that data we don't know you better get your blackmail insurance now so merritt was built on competition and it will sink on you know type of view through little holes looking at teenagers. i think i don't think i'm hash tag anaconda. you know that's true all right well thank you. stay tuned for the second half oh whole lot more. please. crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. they want to so this is bad to the middle ages a public event. for the you know they derive their ability to live very very rigid interpretation of iraq if you look at a cou

the implications of all of this on us german relations i want to bring in william binney former n.s.a. whistleblower bill thank you so much for joining me at this point germany has seen everything from an essay spying to two now to alleged double agents do you think this diplomat being expelled is a proportional response considering the recent events. well i think that's pretty pretty standard procedure i mean we've had like israelis recruiting people inside the u.s. government to spy for them so i mean this goes on with the spy agencies around the world they attempt to recruit people in the standard practice is to. throw them out of the country after you catch them now to be clear this intelligence representative is the cia chief of station he is responsible for coordinating secret service activities and germany i mean how big of a wasp would this representative be to to u.s. intelligence efforts in the country i would impact simply because that is that administrator is not a someone who's doing the work so whatever work is being done is still being done by people who are there. and certainly the guy at