that is what we found. >> let's get reaction first to bill harlow.t do you say to the senator who said the torture, if you will, had no role in helping the u.s. find bin laden? >> well, i wouldn't say torture, but i would say, read the minority report, read the senate minority report which explains that. also read the cia's rebuttal, which is online but nobody seems to be referring to. there's an op-ed in "the washington post" today by john mclaughlin which also gets into this. there's not one thing that leads to a success like getting bin laden. she's right, there are a lot of threads that go into it, including human intelligence, signals intelligence. but there was information that came from detainees, post-enhanced interrogation which heightened our awareness, our understanding of the importance of this one courier -- >> which detainee who was the recipient of this enhanced interrogation -- >> there were -- >> -- provideded the tip that this courier could lead the u.s. to bin laden in abbottabad, pakistan? >> it's never that simple. there are peop

to help us answer that, i'm joined now by bill harlow, he was c.i.a. spokesman from tktk., david iglesias, a former u.s. attorney and senior prosecutor of a guantanamo detainee. bill harlow, aside from these moral and legal questions, what's the answer to the question? is it useful? was it effective to use torture? >> to start with you, would disagree with the term "torture." the enhanced interrogation program we utilizeed on a hand full of top terrorists, absolutely, beyond any doubt, produced vital intelligence that helped keep america safe. >> ifill: give me an example? >> osama bin laden. the report would lead you to believe there wasn't much information that came out of detain subjected to enhanced interrogation that led to him. that is just wrong. there were detainees subjected to e.i.t.-- enhanced interrogation-- that provided vital information. one provided a little bit of information before e.i.t.s. afterwards, he gave us great detailed information that told us for the first time that a particular person was carrying messages to bin laden outside of afghanistan. t

>> well, listen, i agree with bill harlow. the cia obviously has a position on this. they're not making things up. but what we really need to do is see the interrogation reports and compare them with all the other documentation. it may turn out that the cia is right. but right now, this has become too partisan. we're not getting at the truth. and i think it would behoove the cia to make its case just as it's made its case that it didn't go off on this program of enhanced interrogation on its own. it was ordered from the top, approved by the senate and the house. and it should point out why it believes that enhanced interrogation led to the murder of bin laden. >> peter, button this up for us. you're the historian and the scholar. you've gone through the senate intelligence committee report, the minority report, the cia report, but you've also spent more than a decade studying all of this. >> well, hopefully, conversation to be continued because there's a 6,000 page version of this -- >> which is classified. >> which is classified. but the cia would have a strong inter

we're back with a former cia spokesperson bill harlow.weeting -- i don't know if it was her or her staff -- >> i think it was her staff. >> they were tweeting during the course of the press conference, which went on for 45 minutes, tweeted this "cia says unknowable if we could have gotten the intel other ways. studies show it is knowable. cia had info before torture." in other words, she's saying that there's no positive benefits from the enhanced interrogation, that that information could have gotten in other ways -- what the director of the cia said today, it's possible that they could have gotten it in other ways but that's not knowable. >> she's wrong again. in fact, if you go to the minority study, cia study which is on ciasaveslives.com, you'll find that there was valuable information which was gotten from them. maybe if we had the luxury of time, we might have developed another way of getting this information. we didn't have the luxury of time. whe we had a ticking time bomb situation. >> the nuance is, what brennan says, yes, the

bill harlow, who is the spokesman for the cia when george tenna was the cia director, we're going toe an extensive conversation with him as well. we're getting reaction to the extraordinary news conference that you and i covered at the cia with the director, john brennan. >> wolf, thank you very much. >>> in our buried lead, a t-reactit-rex in the u.s. how one man involved in the story ended up in prison. y use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like r

our guests on both sides of the journalist source relationship, bill harlow, a cia spokesman and coordinatedainst the senate report this week and michael isikoff, the investigative correspondent at nbc news now at yahoo!. thank you both for being here. >> good to be here. >> is there a sanctioned leak from the cia where the agency puts out positive information? one of the takeaways from the senate report this week is that there were times when the cia would leak information that made the interrogation program look favorable. >> well, i think the word leak is pajoritive right there. he wouldn't look at it as a leak. a leak to a reporter is something that some other reporter got. so the job with the agency spokesman is to provide information as best they can on an unclassified basis to reporters and that's what they did. >> michael, i see you smiling. have you been on the receiving end of this? >> well, i have certainly been on the receiving end of information from bill and others at the cia. i think, look, one of the disturbing things about the report is clearly there's a political red/blue f