bill de blasio vowed to recoop any money that the trump's may owe, period. orrin hatch told reporters the president might have to do just that. all right, joining us now is tim o'brienwe were going to listen to orrin hatch, but we're going to listen to you guys. his investigations into donald trump's financials were cited in "the new york times" report. and josh barro, both are msnbc contributors. these are big stories that digs into a few interesting issues, one of which, tim, there are all sorts of different things floating around about how rich donald trump is or how successful he is. given what the truth is if he inherited anywhere close to this kind of money or took transfers from his parents to this sort of money, he should be a lot wealthier where he is right now. >> garbage. he relied on his father to get started in the business, and he routinely relied on his father to piggy bank the problems when he wasn't doing as well. to stave off personal bankruptcy, which was accurate, he told me i gave you my word, i never borrowed money for estate. i printed that in my book, we went to court, he sued me for liable. he had to acknowledge that in fact he had borrowed