this was a poker group including george will and bill schneider. paul had not yet come into the scene. he was recruited later by freddie clay, when fred was appointed head of acta, and that was around 1972, 1973. paul, at the time, was at yale. on the faculty. our group -- bill schneider at the time worked for senator buckley, and george will worked for senator alan in colorado. and of course i worked for kissinger. we used to play poker regularly, and we were good friends, social friends. we worked together because these were all players on the hill. in fighting these end war amendments, getting trident through, and so it was an initial -- it was an interesting time with interesting people. everybody is still involved one way or another. >> how did the poker group feel about s.a.l.t.? how it had been negotiated? john lehman: all of us were concerned about how it had been negotiated, how it had provided -- it had codified a disparate balance they gave the soviets and numerical advantage, they could be transmitted into political leverage. and kissin