you will come to appreciate how important john bingham who drafted that central amendment to protect civil liberties and the bill of rights, and this man had no definitive biography written before a and gerard magliocca does saving job. the e.u. also will be riveted in this discussion will eliminate the issues that americans discuss today to understand the origins of our liberties survival briefly introduce our author then begin a conversation. professor gerard magliocca at indiana university. no relation but if it is an honorable name. and from the school of law you ever written three books in over 20 articles and on concurring opinions and before a joining india university he spent two years as a lawyer and one year on the court of appeals and we share a teacher at yale law school that had something to do with your reasons to right this spoken tell me why you chose to write about john bingham. >> i encountered him in law school there is always a brief management offer of the equal protection clause that guarantees equality for all americans that i have professors most notably those

bingham, what about when and?nd his answer was that i am not a puppet of logic i am the slave of practical politics. if you think about that for a second that it's a is an intereg political answer because what is he saying? i would like to help you but i can't get enough people to go along or was that his way of dodging the question? hard to say. he didn't say much about women's rights in any of the material that i could find so it isn't really clear what position and you probably didn't have a position that was that much different than other people in congress at that point in time. >> but his views shared by many in congress is that the amendment wil only protected cil rights and not political or social rights and he understood that about equal with the guarantees to be less sweeping than interpreted today in other words not prevent the government from discriminating against or in favor of people unless the civil rights was involved what does that say about what he would have thought about affirmative-action? >>

why does that make bingham the most important constitutional writer? >> he was trying to achieve to guarantee fundamental rights to all people. black and white. he liked to say that the word white isn't in the constitution. and what were those fundamental rights other than the doing away with slavery? he wanted them to apply to all of the americans against federal and state government. the bill of rights didn't apply to all-americans and didn't apply to the actions of state government. the state of virginia could censor speech and that was perfectly okay. so his position on that took a long time to actually be adopted by the supreme court. we think it is obvious today to say the bill of rights should apply to states and federal government, but he contributed that idea in the most significant way. he wanted to guarantee equal treatment under the law for all people. it is less clear exactly what he meant by that. though again, of course, slavery and ending it was a big part of that story. he felt that the government should be taking steps to ensure there

why don't you tell me why you chose to write about john bingham. >> well, i encountered a john binghamon that he is the author of the equal protection clause of the constitution that guarantees equality for all americans. and then i had defenses, most notably, who emphasize bingham's role in writing this language and no changing the constitution fundamentally from what it had been in 1787. and so i was interested in looking for a biography of the man, and i didn't find much. what i did find was disappointing. so i thought to myself, isn't that a shame that someone who did so much hasn't had a biographical treatment? somebody should do it. and about 10 years later i decided that i should be want to do it, and that's what the book comes from. >> spectacular. and you call being a user lincoln was a graders constitutional poet but bingham was a man who turned the poetry into at home. what you mean by that speaks people are familiar with the gettysburg address and see that as a representation of the change in the constitution from one that was focused on more state centered view of national

. >> what was bingham blank relationship? >> not friendly as you might imagine. he basically called them traders and gave speeches in congress attacking the most prominent of the copperheads who was also from ohio and didn't have much sympathy for those who were sort of antiwar you might say during the civil war. >> the article of the constitution center is for everyone to read the constitution and educate your self about it. ladies and gentlemen i can't imagine a better way of educating yourself about the 14th amendment and reading this

bingham said think of him until it let's stop with the new new deal on the wrong into media in geneva earlier this week i'm going with this weekend's turkey's position on the contrary i think and the simple ones to be an unwise this film on sauna in there. he can and it's much easier to deal with today iran in the keys off syria and also leah me in terms of managing deals the event that the imports the moon bases from outside and and onto the doll that has v neck and often now and then all intentional slight competition the team turkey and iran. the turkey was regarded as a late comer to the middle east and there will be some outstanding girl will be here on this explains why the key is it has been inpatient it is via an about to now i think is that his position the panel dead comes to the fore again and dependable come into force in in in the medley with a slight extension with the rawness to be an understatement because it means that the two countries backing opposite sides in the syrian war and the stakes are pretty high on a techie exactly but do it and you're under lincoln's has

in pre-modern medicine, the history of medicine, and use hild guard bingham's medicine as my source. didn't want to stop practicing medicine, so i looked around for a while for a part-time job, and the only place that would offer me a part-time job at the time was laguna honda hospital in san francisco. so i went over for my interview. and when i saw it for the first time, i was absolutely shocked because it looked like a medieval 12th century monastery. it was high on a hill, it had cream-colored walls and a red-tiled roof and turrets and a bell tower. so i went for my interview, and then the medical director took me around. well, the lace was enormous. it was on 62 acres of land in the middle of the city, it had almost 1200 patients who were taken care of on those old-fashioned open wards, the nightingale wards. it had a live-in priest, a resident nun. it had a chapel where looked like -- which looked like a church really as she showed it to me, you know? it had stained glass windows and solid wooden pews. and very politically incorrect stations of the cross along the walls. we're

fourth quarter of 2007 the economy is falling at a 9% rate. 18 with steam is not the right medicine binghamen is it the right medicine? >> it's not the right medicine, that's the point. >> my perception of the kind of problems that washington is capable of dealing with is a problem is that everyone gets a court of what they wanted and they staple it together. at the time the debate -- >> a very high ratio. i think for people get one-eighth of what they want. >> but that idea, as opposed to there is for different things in one of them is correct, and we have to orient around deciding which one is correct and only do that. so when they come in and need for stimulus, i think, we thought the economy was shaky at 3.5% anybody is looking at each other and saying, this is going to be horrible but it turns out it was actually minus 9%. there was a division of opinion at the time. is this going to be a t-shaped recovered where we have a huge downturn and then will come rapidly back? is this going to be long extended painful deleveraging? this is going to be something that will be able to get a bunch