. >> you mentioned that bioforum. you were at the bioforum. they didn't invite the independent candidates. you may have seen that the worcester coalition partners called me and i imagine the others and told us, you're not allowed to come to the debate. martha, you put out a statement that you think there should be six debates and include all the candidates. will not both of you join in saying we won't go to that forum unless you invite the independents? >> that was not our decision obviously on either the forum or the debate. >> you could do so. >> if charlie wants to join me to revisit it. >> i'm saying, don't go if -- >> voters have a chance and a right to see who's running. i don't control what they do. >> as governor, a leader -- >> tell you what. you can get back in this later on if you like. mr. lively, 45 seconds. >> if i am elected governor, taxes will go down substantially. frankly, i would like to give back every dollar that i'm able to save by streamlining and downsizing government. but i can't do it as fast as i'd like to, because