will take the appropriate actions at the conclusion of the investigation. >> that was nbc's blaine alexanderned leading up to this but there were three officers, one man on the ground. what goes through your mind in a legal sense as you're watching that video in. >> what goes through my mind, chris, is this appears to be horrific, excessive force. yes, it would be wonderful if we had wall-to-wall video coverage, courtesy of body cameras, surveillance cameras or concerned citizens pulling out their cell phone and reporting what was going on there but you know what? there are some things that speak for themselves and this video sure seems to speak for itself on the excessive force front. the next question that i have is, you know, not only what will the local authorities do, the arkansas state police reportedly will be investigating, but will the department of justice continue to sort of reach out on the civil rights front and engage in the kind of aggressive investigations of civil rights abuses that we saw them engage in when police officers murdered george floyd and civilians murdered ahmad

joining me is blaine alexander. also with me is former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. they are saying they need to wait until at least after the election because he's so busy. >> reporter: that was the crux of there are argument. it's something the judge didn't want to hear about in court. he said i don't want to hear about the political implications, but in their legal filings and the little bit he was able to mention in the courtroom, that's what the kemp team is leading into, saying because we have about two and a half months in what he calls the mostly watched gubernatorial race in the country, there's no way what's happening here would not seep into the politics and campaign leading into november. he says because we're essentially on the eve of the election, they're not saying he shouldn't testify at all, they're saying if you're not going to quash the subpoena, just allow him to come back and testify after november wraps up. the d.a.'s office are arguing what the governor potentially has to say is so important, so cru

let's bring in blaine alexander. the other bit of news here has to do with rudy giuliani. yesterday we learned that he was a target in georgia's investigation into the attempt to overturn the 2020 election. do we know what it means to be a target in a state court? we know for federal courts. what is the state court saying? >> reporter: well, the d.a. is not speaking specifically about this but this is a significant change in status. to go from a witness to a target. indictment is possible. not a certainty but a possibility. well this change in status, it now means this is the closest trump associate that we know to be a target of the d.a.'s investigation here in georgia. but it doesn't mean he's the only one. the 16 alternate or fake electors are also targets of the d.a.'s investigation. they've also been notified that they're targets. we're talking about more than a dozen people who are similarly situated. it gives us insight into what we could expect from giuliani tomorrow when he testifies before the special grand jury at a rt could house here in atlanta. a number of le

my colleague blaine alexander is out to the district attorney's office to try to get a definition on what this specifically means to rudy giuliani. presumably it means he's someone of focus and potential could face grand jury charges. they're going to put out a report and from there a separate grand jury would have to look at this and decide if there were charges. either way it seems to be some indication as to whether or not anybody in the former president's orbit was involved in election interference in fulton county, georgia. we'll just have to see where all this goes. two questions i know you're going to ask. one, will giuliani still show up for the grand jury this week? costello says, yes, that is the plan at this point. his testimony had been postponed because of surgery that giuliani had. and then as far as whether or not he'll get into the subject of any sort of conversations between the former president trump and giuliani, he called it delusional, that's a quote, that there would be any sort of testimony in regards to that because of attorney/client privilege. they say they'

joining me now from outside of the courthouse in fulton county is blaine alexander and joining me also a brookings institution report. yesterday you sent a note around saying he probably would be ushered in underground from a parking garage, that we wouldn't see rudy giuliani, but he chose to take the steps and the front door. did he say anything to reporters? >> i think that is probably so far one of the most interesting parts about this entire day, katy, the fact that up to this point there have been a number of witnesses that have come forward and spoken before the special grand jury. for the most part, many of them have entered and exited the building away from cameras. that was a very different approach than what rudy giuliani took. he chose the most public entrance where he literally walks up courthouse steps and past a throng of cameras and into the courthouse. he was questioned a number of different ways and said i'm going to wait for the grand jury to finish up before i say anything. he really didn't say enough. but this has been a rather lengthy time he has been inside of thi