with me on the phone is bob bauer during the obama skplagz is a law professor at nyu. ou are our expert here. explain how the emergencies act in your mind was meant to be interpreted by the office of the presidency. >> meant to be interpreted by the office of the presidency, it may be that donald trump suggests that his lawyers interpreted it expansively and not congress's intention. congress enacted this statute to give the president the authority to declare an emergency where one exists. nothing suggests that his discretion exists so far as to declare as he sees fit any set of conditions to be a national emergency. there has to be a national emergency that he declares to access these authorities. >> who is the -- isn't that subjective in and of itself? one person's emergency is another person's -- well, it's a pain, but not an emergency. i don't mean to be that, but it seems subjective. >> you put your finger on a point. the president would need a significant amount of deference and they can permeate emergency that is the president declared. however donald trump hits

bob bauer, former white house counsel. you're saying -- both of you are saying it's time initiate the formal inquiry in the house to have some public fact finding undertaken? >> exactly. and we come at this from very, very different perspectives. he's a general. i was a solicitor general which is not a general. it's a lawyer. who's far more conservative than i am. we're generationally different but on this single point which i think underscores what you're talking about, which is the public's need for some answers here. this is why i think congress has got to start this inquiry. >> let's talk about the content of what is essentially alleged in this article. to ken delaney's point and the filing in his own sentencing memo that this is a thing cohen apoors says the president did. as for corroboration there's a bit of a question mark about that. this is from the barr memo and i know you object and the theory contained therein. when he talks about basically making the argument you cannot commit obstruction is basically to say

i was talking to bob bauer who said that president trump has been so inconsistent about the wall and trying to defend the reasoning behind why it needs to be built. all of that would become exposed in a legal challenge and would really crippleth the administration's credibility. if he can't get democrats on board, he wants to show his conservative base he's fighting and willing to take it all the way to a court challenge. >> michael, the administration continues to hammer these false stats about threats coming across the southern border. sarah sanders, she got hammered sunday on one of them. here's another one that was offered by the vice president during all three of his morning show interviews. it has to do with the threat from special interest aliens. take a listen. >> 3,000 special interest individuals, more than 3,000 special interest aliens were apprehended on our southern border. on the southern border, last year alone, 3,000 special interest aliens were apprehended trying to come into our country. >> all right. dhs quotes non-u.s. person flagged based on a analysis of travel

bob bauer. there was one phrase we did not hear from president trump last night which was national emergency. sarah huckabee sanders says that's still on the table. give me from your legal expertise, and as michael steele pointed out, this could be an off ramp, a safe way out for the president. do you think that's right? >> i think it's damaging for the president to be rebuked as i think he would be in attempting to exercise these emergency powers. i think everything he has done throughout this entire period has undercut his ability to go before the courts and defend that claim. i don't take it lightly. maybe a political ploy. i think it will be seen as such by the courts. it's damaging to the presidency and the president. it's another example of where raw political self-interest drives so much of his decision making. >> you were with the obama administration when that administration was making moves related to immigration and critics at the time said that what president obama was doing was an a