bob brugeman and i both live in dense areas. some people want a wig yard, i don't have any problem with that. but -- big yard. i don't have any problem with that. but if you look at the difference between europe and the united states, in europe they're eliminating freeways. the only grade separation in pairist, the autoroute poppedou, will be gone next year. they have a necklace of light rail lines that they're building around pairs. , the notion that europe is becoming more auto-centric is ridiculous. there are roads that go between cities not roads that go into the middle of the metropolitan area. and in the u.s. these roads that go in the middle of the metropolitan area cause more problems than they solve. they reduce the value of the neighborhoods where they're built and they aren't being build new anymore, for the most part. there are a few cities where they are. the trend is definitely more towards transit, urbanism. i think atlanta can benefit from that trend. >> professor, you heard robert brugeman before the break, talk