and i want to i'm going to be the bob kerrey here and say that, you know, there is one institution that's really promoting that and that's fulbright university, vietnam. and so i think through what is basic, i think the best face of us, vietnam reconciliation, this university, it's also for me, i see it as a vehicle to allow vietnamese vietnamese in vietnam and vietnamese in the diaspora to really promote reconciliation, reconciliation amongst ourselves. okay, ray, you were there in the seven days as a young foreign service officer, and then you came back as the american ambassador. a post war, vietnam. so when you were there as a junior political officer, could you have imagined what you find when you came back as ambassador spanned those two experiences for us. when we when we were there, i was and i began my time in vietnam in the seventies up there from 1970 to 73. i think i seven months with a private with a u.s. advisory team, one of the provinces mainly dealing ethnic vietnamese who had fled from long knoll's pogrom against in cambodia and then two years in the embassy we had a sma

yeah, and bob kerrey talked about that in a different way in the last panel where there's when there's a lack of alignment between what you think the right thing to do is and what the public might be interested in or how prepared they are. and i think we all face in this environment today, the irony that never in the history of the world have people had more access to information than they do now. and all that has happened. we have curated our own insular ways of understand in the world, so we're more limited than we were before. yeah. well, thank you so, francie. well, a couple things. one is that. i think what we've been doing ever since the, you know, all through the cold war. really? yeah. when we fought hot wars is over wars of decolonization and that we kept we kept thinking that. it was. we were. we were anti-communist all the time. but really it had to do with internal disputes over, over, over decolonized ocean and if we realized that we would have done better better. so i think, you know, to take that lesson further along, we have to understand in what sort of geopolitical co

and i called bob kerrey. i said, senator kerry. he said, call me bob. then i called general eaton. he said, call me paul. so you can see that we've got a certain i don't know what rhythm here, which is to say that while these gentlemen are could not be more distinguished, each in their own ways of service, we're all at a stage of reflection. and that's what i really want us to, to talk a bit about. so what i'm going to do is ask each of you a really very specific question to start with, and then try to move into a sort of more general discussion. i have not gone into a long and labored introduction. you, of all people, do not need one. we only have an hour. we want to keep a tight and get as much done as we can. so my first question is, chuck. mr. secretary. you and bob. how is it that we have to. former senator from nebraska, what are the odds? right. and you just got lucky. and one was, if i'm not mistaken, a republican, and one was, if i'm not mistaken, a democrat. neither of it is past tense yet. i would say that. and so both of you served with great distinction in various ways

and again, having spent of my adult life traveling along with military, something that bob kerrey this morning that rings so true, militaries cannot wars militaries at best defeat other military eyes. only governments can win wars by sealing the and we forget that all too often in our history because you define every problem as being, you know, a nail, then the hammer is your only tool. and it just is so painful to see the military as heartfelt and as well organized. it is sent off to do things as it was in iraq and afghanistan that it was never designed to do the phrase hearts and minds came up several times today. that was the mantra from vietnam. you heard it in iraq and in afghanistan. i remember a late night at a foreign base in iraq when officer was telling me how much he hated the phrase hearts and, minds. you can't win hearts and it's a fool's errand. it's insulting how should americans feel if the afghans or vietnamese or the iraqis tried to win our hearts and minds or, the russians trying to win our and minds. you have to respect people's cultures far better, this officer sai

and again, having spent of my adult life traveling along with military, something that bob kerrey this morning that rings so true, militaries cannot wars militaries at best defeat other military eyes. only governments can win wars by sealing the and we forget that all too often in our history because you define every problem as being, you know, a nail, then the hammer is your only tool. and it just is so painful to see the military as heartfelt and as well organized. it is sent off to do things as it was in iraq and afghanistan that it was never designed to do the phrase hearts and minds came up several times today. that was the mantra from vietnam. you heard it in iraq and in afghanistan. i remember a late night at a foreign base in iraq when officer was telling me how much he hated the phrase hearts and, minds. you can't win hearts and it's a fool's errand. it's insulting how should americans feel if the afghans or vietnamese or the iraqis tried to win our hearts and minds or, the russians trying to win our and minds. you have to respect people's cultures far better, this officer sai