bob moses? >> guest: bob moses was the leader of the southern voting rights movement in mississippi. a gentle philosophical character, he essentially the father of freedom summer, a very moral character, ultimately had a break down and then has since in the past ten years revived to a new career. c-span: where? >> guest: all of the country, teaching eighth graders how to do first-year algebra, which he says is the dividing line between where you have a chance in life or not much like the right to vote was in mississippi in the 60's. c-span: fred shuttle's worth. >> guest: firebrand birmingham preacher who personalized the duel with bill konar, the lieutenant invited dr. king to birmingham for the climactic showdown of 63. c-span: who was bull konar? >> guest: the police chief in the director of public safety and birmingham who kind of personified segregation in birmingham, the city allows most like k-town in south africa. c-span: and john lewis. >> guest: john lewis, young man grew up stuttering

think about bob moses, rosa parks, e.d. mixon, all of these people had garvey connections. so there's a picture of african-american politics that is much more complicated than we want to acknowledge and i think we have come to terms with our pass and the disgrace of slavery by constructing a narrative that is about how slavery ends and about how freedom is ultimately realized so that the civil rights movement becomes the crucial end point, and episodes, people, movements that don't fit into that, are very problematic, and i think there's also scholars across the political spectrum who have an investment in denying it, and that's -- i've been struck by that. i have had a lot of pushback of anything i've written. more about that but what i discovered is that the movement is still alive. there's a garvey chapter in philadelphia. i organized the conference about three years ago on the unia scholarly conference of small number of scholars who were going to present their work but at the last minute i advertised in a local newspaper and 150 garveyites showed up. we were all astoni

but at the same time he understood it he was aware having taught at stoneman all those years like bob moses and julian bond i don't mean on their part necessarily. they begin to look to some of the organizations as if the white students were taking over the leadership position in part because the black members were deferring to them. >> host: would you say that it was around the same time some of these divisions were popping up in the civil rights movement that she began to get more involved in the peace movement, the antivietnam war movement? >> i think that was somewhat coincidental. he was in fact fallujah from spellman in 1963, and the entire war movement had not yet really begun. it started to begin the very next year. how word shifted his base of operation and his family at north when he was offered a job at boston university. but he continued to flash back to the south. he took part for example and freedom summer in 1964 and flew back any number of times in order to attend some of the strategy sessions. but it is true that once the movement began against of the war in vietnam that he

when they were around even though some powerful young black people were associated with snic like bob moses and julian bond. i don't mean on their part necessarily, but it began to look to some of the blacks in the organization as if the white students were taking over the leadership position in part because the black members were deferring to them. >> host: now, would you say that it was around the same time that these, some of these divisions are popping up in the civil rights movement, that howard began to get more involved with the peace movement, the anti-vietnam war movement? >> guest: i think that was somewhat coincidental. >> host: okay. >> guest: howard was, in fact, fired from spelman in 1963, and the anti-war movement had not yet really begun. it started to begin the very next year. and howard shifted his base of operation and his family up north when he was offered a job at boston university. but he continued to fly back to the south. he took part, for example, in freedom summer in 1964 and flew back any number of times in order to attend some of these strategy sessions. but it

>> guest: i come very close in the project of 1964i went to new orleans and i met with bob moses and other people there and i fought very seriously. and probably if it hadn't been for the financing that they wanted people to bring their own money to bear themselves out and other things -- i worked my way through school, so i needed a job in order to go to finish college. >> host: talk about the period you mentioned sncc then there was dr. king's organization, would sclc. what was the overall mission of the movement? was a to get equal the is a big word or to get voting rights, civil rights, what else did they want and how were their approach is different from each other? >> guest: both of them thought in terms of the breeding rating and we mislead ourselves when we hear this term civil rights movement because if that had been the goal from 1965 the civil rights agenda had been achieved would have the civil rights act of 1964, the voting rights act of 1965 so that had been the goal martin luther king would have felt i'm going to retire and go to college and be a man campus minister st

i met with bob moses and other people there. i thought very seriously and probably if it hadn't been for the financing. they wanted people to bring their own money to bail themselves out and other things. i worked my way through school. i needed a job in order to go finish college. >> host: talk about that period. you mentioned sncc and then there was dr. king's organization, the clc. what were their respective missions? what was the overall mission of the movement? was it to get a quality was the big word. was it to get voting rights and civil rights and what else did they want and how were their approach is different from each other? >> guest: i think both thought in terms of her freedom struggle. i think in some ways we mislead ourselves when we use the term civil rights movement. in 1965 the civil rights agenda were achieved the would have the civil rights act of 1964 in the and the voting rights act of 1965. that have been the goal. martin luther king would have said i'm going to retire and go to a college and be a minister