king, but also bob moses, the main organizer from sncc. here i am as a sncc person giving a talk as the editor of martin luther king's papers. i gave this talk, and the conclusion of it was that the movement would have happened even if he had not been born. i looked out, and here's karen -- here is coretta scott king kind of frowning. i think maybe i'm not going to be lasting long in this job. [laughter] mr. carson: it forced me to rethink my own attitude. every time i applied for a grant to do the king papers, i had to say, why is this important? why is it important? if king had never been born, why is it important? what did he provide to the movement? one way of understanding the last 30 years of my life is answering that question. i have to answer that question every day, every year. each year, i hope my answer becomes more sophisticated, that i understand that there was something essential. what i think was essential is that he was a visionary. there were a lot of people who were good at mobilizing people. there were organizers. there

question, i think the generations before us, and the folks that we still have around, yourself, bob mosesgela davis, have been very helpful but the goals of the civil rights movement have yet to be fully met. >> i'm struck by your observation that integration was the target for the movement. but integration, i think that's a little misunderstood. >> okay. >> we aren't looking to integrate into america. whether it was racial integration, economic integration, it was that we knew if we were not part of the fabric of what this nation professed to be about, that we would never really truly touch the heartbeat of what america was about. >> so all the groups come together, all the young people that want to come, they knew they were talking a lot about within dream defenders and i think this is part of a larger conversation about who our target is. our target is not the koch brothers, our president obama, but the public opinion, the masses of people we need to shift from their places of comfort to see the world in the way we see it. >> what we set out to achieve in the civil rights movement is q