as i recall only you and one other and one of those members of congress bob ney went to jail. how many members of congress do you figure the average lobbyist on k. street has in their pocket well the average big lobbying firm has the least a hundred that they have significant influence with and those by us that was the people we had significant influence we have probably touches with through over three hundred of them and the average five hundred twenty five thirty five didn't have the kind of the senate and any lobbying firm that's a major lobbying firm is going to have at least that and the minor burns are probably going to have half bad. ralph reed was in a secret partnership with you to screw the indians. and he went to scotland with you and bob ney and some of the others why did john mccain avoid calling ralph reed before congress when he was calling others to testify and why didn't ralph reed go to jail i mean isn't this an example of what can mccain and others still living in fear of big money and the big money that ralph reed to this day still represents well let me le

>> cunningham and blagojavich and bob ney, even, who have their hand at and want you to there -- thatoumoney kind of stuff is rare. but the fact is that these members are not asking for contributions to something that they're interested in. this is for charity. oftentimes, these charities will hire their wives or their children. if they're asking for money from the republican or democrat congressional committee, it is because there is a requirement. they are raising money for things that they are involved in. it is not directly into their bank accounts, but it might as well be, really. >> when there's this story that you tell. money is one technique that the lobbyist can deploy. many gifts become another aspect. you describe how lobbyists with great influence and certain representatives can cause the advent of congressional hearings and to do so utterly .estroye in this is the kind of weapon you can deploy to guarantee that people lined up in the way that you want. >> yes. i think those people do not think about the fact that the government has become a weapon for people. it is not merely a

the fact is, the reason that only bob ney was taken down in the case shows how hard it is to prove thiss. >> right. >> and ultimately any public servant taking a gratuity or gift or anything, whether it's been done for 200 years, 2,000 years, or two years is wrong, and it's something that has to be stopped. >> so if a guy -- again, i was never up on weekends, but let's say a guy decided hey, i've got box seats at the red skins game, come to the owners box, something i never did. and let's say he works for boeing, yeah, sure, that's great. does that mean if i work on the armed services committee and i vote in boeing's favor over the next four years, six years i'm corrupt? or does it just mean -- like there's a reason why the nra gave me money. because they knew i was going to vote their way. but i would -- as i told them at the beginning because they campaigned against me i'm going to vote your way anyway. how do you prove that? >> well, i think it's difficult to prove. and the problem in d.c. is the legal corruption. when one speaks about things that are a problem, it's not necessarily

>> cunningham and blagojavich and bob ney, even, who have their hand at and want you to actually put money there -- that kind of stuff is rare. but the fact is that these members are not asking for contributions to something that they're interested in. this is for charity. oftentimes, these charities will hire their wives or their children. if they're asking for money from the republican or democrat congressional committee, it is because there is a requirement. they are raising money for things that they are involved in. it is not directly into their bank accounts, but it might as well be, really. >> when there's this story that you tell. money is one technique that the lobbyist can deploy. many gifts become another aspect. you describe how lobbyists with great influence and certain representatives can cause the advent of congressional hearings and to do so utterly destroy in. this is the kind of weapon you can deploy to guarantee that people lined up in the way that you want. >> yes. i think those people do not think about the fact that the government has become a weapon for people.

understand, as a member of the house administration committee for, i think, 15 years, i, along with bob ney, was sponsor of the help america vote act which created the election assistance commission. i know something about the election assistance commission. it was created by -- because in the year 2000 we had a disastrous election which was resolved, finally, but not very acceptably by most people. whether your candidate won or lost. so the assistance commission was created for the purposes, for the first time in history, of having some federal presence in the oversight of federal elections. not mandatory, but advisory. now what we see, frankly, throughout america, in republican-controlled legislatures in many, many states, is an effort to make voting more difficult. to, in my opinion, suppress the vote. to require more and more documentation of people who have already registered to vote. and claiming problems that exist that do not exist. now if you want to up the -- to obfuscate the election process, if you want to suppress the vote, if you want to make it more difficult what is one of t

>> cunningham and blagojavich and bob ney, even, who have their hand at and want you to actually putoney there -- that kind of stuff is rare. but the fact is that these members are not asking for contributions to something that they're interested in. this is for charity. oftentimes, these charities will hire their wives or their children. if they're asking for money from the republican or democrat congressional committee, it is because there is a requirement. they are raising money for things that they are involved in. it is not directly into their bank accounts, but it might as well be, really. >> when there's this story that you tell. money is one technique that the lobbyist can deploy. many gifts become another aspect. you describe how lobbyists with great influence and certain representatives can cause the advent of congressional hearings and to do so utterly destroy in. this is the kind of weapon you can deploy to guarantee that people lined up in the way that you want. >> yes. i think those people do not think about the fact that the government has become a weapon for people. i

understand, as a member of the house administration committee for, i think, 15 years, i, along with bob ney, was sponsor of the help america vote act which created the election assistance commission. i know something about the election assistance commission. it was created by -- becau in the year 2000 we had a disastrous election which was resolved, finally, but not very acceptably by most people. whether your candidate won or lost. so the assistance commission was created for the purposes, for the first time in history, of having some federal presence in the oversight of federal elections. not mandatory, but advisory. now what we see, frankly, throughout america, in republican-controlled legislatures in many, many states, is an effort to make voting more difficult. to, in my opinion, suppress the vote. to require more and more documentation of people who have already registered to vote. and claiming problems that ist that do not exist. now if you want to up the -- to obfuscate the election process, if you want to suppress the vote, if you want to make it more difficult what is one of the t

>> cunningham and blagojavich and bob ney, even, who have their hand at and want you to actually put money there -- that kind of stuff is rare. but the fact is that these members are not asking for contributions to something that they're interested in. this is for charity. oftentimes, these charities will hire their wives or their children. if they're asking for money from the republican or democrat congressional committee, it is because there is a requirement. they are raising money for things that they are involved in. it is not directly into their bank accounts, but it might as well be, really. >> when there's this story that you tell. money is one technique that the lobbyist can deploy. many gifts become another aspect. you describe how lobbyists with great influence and certain representatives can cause the advent of congressional hearings and to do so utterly destroy in. this is the kind of weapon you can deploy to guarantee that people lined up in the way that you want. >> yes. i think those people do not think about the fact that the government has become a weapon for people.